Obama: Bush's Faith-Based Plan Didn't Go Far Enough!
Tuesday July 1, 2008
What will the liberals who criticized President Bush's "theocracy" make of Sen. Barack Obama's speech yesterday -- which argued that the problem with Bush's faith-based approach is that it didn't go far enough? In his speech, Obama said Bush's office...
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When Dubya wanted to do it, the Libs screamed, "Church-State!"
Now, NObama says he wants-ta do it. What, no "Church-State"??
Fine. CHURCH-STATE. Make you happy?
Any faith-based anything is against the Constitution and Bill of Rights because it takes taxpayers money and uses it for religion. If one is a non-believer it is spending that persons tax dollars on something that individual doesn't believe in. Has the RIGHT not to believe in. How is that fair in any way? In addition, those same monies will be used primarily for CHRISTIAN organizations. So now we can add Jewish citizens and Muslim citizens and Buddhist citizens, etc., to that bunch that are getting fleeced.
The only way to make it fair is for NO religion to be in government at all. That will never happen in my lifetime, but it is the way it should be.
Jesus in Baghdad
Why we should keep Franklin Graham out of Iraq.
By Steven Waldman
Posted Friday, April 11, 2003, at 6:23 PM ET
REGARDING THE ABOVE ARTICLE, YOU SHOULD FIRST GET INFORMED AS TO WHAT ISLAM IS ALL ABOUT AND STOP BASHING PRESIDENT BUSH AND FRANKLIN GRAHAM. THEY GET IT AND KNOW THAT THIS IS A SPIRITUAL WAR WE ARE IN. ONE FIRST HAS TO KNOW TRUTH, WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST. THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW HIM, FEEL THREATENED BY HIM AND CHRISTIANITY, BECAUSE WE ALL WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR OUR SINS AND STAND IN JUDGEMENT BEFORE HIM. WE NEED MORE FRANKLIN GRAHAMS, WHO REALLY KNOW THE BIBLE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THEM. HE PREACHES THE GOSPEL (GOOD NEWS),WHEREVER HE CAN, UNLIKE OBAMA, WHO IS NOT A TRUE CHRISTIAN, AS EVIDENCED BY HIS SOCIAL POSITIONS AND DISTORTIONS OF SCRIPTURE. MAY I ADD - THAT HE SAT IN A SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN CHURCH, THAT GAVE AN AWARD TO FARAKAN. JESUS SAID "I TELL YOU THE TRUTH, NO ONE CAN SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD UNLESS HE IS BORN AGAIN" (John 3:3). CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF. A CHRISTIAN IS A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST (MEANS MESSIAH) AND OUR MISSION IS TO GIVE THE TRUTH - THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD OF ALL AND ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN WE ENTER HEAVEN. IT IS A CHOICE THAT WE MAKE.
GOD BLESS YOU!!
Some of this is just politically smart tactics by Obama. Some of it smacks of being a program he realy believes in. It is what he did for a while. He beat Hillary by out-organizing her, and Hillary's ineptitude helped. This style of organizing appears to be something at which he is accomplished. The devil will be in the details. Who carries this stuf out will matter also. Will it be some party hack out for revenge who makes sure only the "right" groups get money? Will it be results oriented as Obama stated?
Steve
Ancient Manuscript,
Religious charities being involved with government-sponsored programs is far from using taxpayer money for religion. These charities simply have an infrastructure already set up. If the government tried to set one up, it wouldn't be as localized nor as organized, and it would take more money to do. No one is advocating giving Baptists the only say or making Presbyterianism the official religion of the state (which are the two things the first amendment prohibits in regards to religion). The separation of church and state does not necessarily have to imply the suppression of the church in public life.
Meanwhile, Mr. Incredible seems to think everybody who supports Obama was against faith-based initiatives just because President Bush supported it. That's ridiculous. I was against the way President Bush wanted to funnel money to it. There was no oversight given, and his programs disproportionately went to rural Evangelical Southern parishes that didn't need the money to deal with poverty issues the way that inner-city charities do. The idea wasn't wrong; but, as with the War in Afghanistan, the implementation was. Oh, and guess what? I support Sen. Obama.
Mr. Incredible sir, Libzis, NObama? Have a nice twenty years in the political wilderness. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch! Peace
I think some of my liberal brethren are getting a little over-heated about this faith-based support from Obama. I say this as an atheist democrat. Despite the fact that I'm not a church-goer, I have worked in several faith-based organizations—I volunteered for 7 years in a local breakfast program run by an episcopal church in my neighborhood.
They don't proselytize, they serve people breakfast as part of their church's mission. I believe Obama when he says that there will be guidelines on these organizations. I think these kinds of groups serve a vital function in our communities, and certainly one that government can't really duplicate.
I believe in the separation of church and state, but I don't think it's helpful to be so doctrinaire as to object to faith-based community programs.
"Bush had promised that programs would be funded on the basis of 'results' but then did little to evaluate whether programs were working. Obama says he would change that."
So the difference is that Bush said that funds would be based on results, whereas Obama has SAID that funds will be based on results. Crystal clear now, thank you.
==Religious charities being involved with government-sponsored programs is far from using taxpayer money for religion. ==
We were told that "involvement" and "gobvernment-sponsored" amount to "promotion."
Is that inoperative now that NObama is for it? You people relaxed the standard for politics? Nice. Real nice.
==...an episcopal church in my neighborhood...They don't proselytize...==
Why not? Didn't Jesus tell those who are born again to bring people to Him? Then, why does that church disobey Him?
== I believe Obama when he says that there will be guidelines on these organizations.==
You believe him when he says that he will impose guidelines on worshp by these organizations????? How does THAT keep Church separate from State?
based on his affiliation with a racist pastor, we know what Obama thinks is "faith-based." Will an Obama administration funnel public funds to racist institutioans like his "former" church?
==based on his affiliation with a racist pastor, we know what Obama thinks is "faith-based." Will an Obama administration funnel public funds to racist institutioans like his "former" church?==
Great point!
We know what the answer to your question is.
As a Christian, the sad thing is that my bet is I would have a more honest conversation partner in someone like Wendy than in Mr. Incredible. She refers to herself as an atheist yet sounds as if she'd have the integrity to consider a different point of view if it were presented to her. I have some views that would be associated with what we call conservative and some liberal. But everything, for me, is informed by my Christian faith. The most difficult thing, as a Christian, is when I see the hypocrisy and disingenuineness of the likes of... well, we all know the most current, public figures... but we have one right here in our midst in Mr. Incredible.
==As a Christian, the sad thing is that my bet is I would have a more honest conversation partner in someone like Wendy than in Mr. Incredible.==
Translation: "I can't get Mr. Incredible to agree with me, and, so, he is not honest in his conversation."
==...everything, for me, is informed by my Christian faith.==
Ahhhh, yes, and yet, you support NObama, even though he supports abortion and so-called "same-sex 'marriage.'" We see.
==The most difficult thing, as a Christian, is when I see the hypocrisy and disingenuineness of the likes of... well, we all know the most current, public figures... but we have one right here in our midst in Mr. Incredible.==
Translation: "I can't get Mr. Incedible to agree with me, and, so, he must be a hypocrite and disingenuous."
==I would have a more honest conversation partner in someone like Wendy than in Mr. Incredible...I see the hypocrisy and disingenuineness...right here in our midst in Mr. Incredible.==
Translation: "I tried to sweet-talk Mr. Incredible into siding with me, but he is stubborn and has his own ideas which, of course, are wrong cuz I, of course, am right, and he should realize that."
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