In response to my post about the Oliphant cartoon mocking Palin for speaking in tongues, reader “price of liberty” makes two points worthy of discussion:
“We have a double standard: Its ok to make fun of the religion of Obama(or the fact that someone doesn’t believe him), but its not ok to make fun of Sarah because she might be pentacostal.”
Exactly. Anyone who defended Obama from the attacks on the sincerity of his faith (as I did), has an equal obligation to defend Palin from this cartoon.
“Some Christians like my self feel that some pentacostals are not telling the truth about there Glossolalia experiences and are not of the holy spirit. Sometimes I feel like those that believe they spoke in tongues are mocking us when they describe it, and get upset when sane people want to test the spirits to see if it was indeed from God.”
It’s impossible to know about the absolute genuineness of someone’s speaking in tongues experience — just as it’s impossible to know whether a Christian is faking when he describes being saved, or a Catholic is faking when they claims to believe in transubstantiation, etc. In interpersonal relations, it’s an easy call: just assume they’re telling the truth and go about your business. Most religious believers, I feel, are sincere in their descriptions of their own spiritual experiences. And those who aren’t — well, they’ll get their ultimate rewards eventually. I have better things to do than hunt out the frauds.
But politics admittedly poses a dilemma: we’re supposed to be sniffing out fakery in our politicians, in general. And the more the candidates offer their faith as a political asset, the more tempting it is to apply traditional modes of scrutiny.
My view, though, is that faith is simply in a different category — that we need to give politicians the benefit of the doubt about their personal faith experiences, at least until they try to impose it on other people. And unless I missed something, Sarah Palin has not tried to force the rest of us to speak in tongues. For the same reason — i.e. we don’t really know the sincerity of a politician’s faith — we shouldn’t make that a major factor in our vote.




posted September 18, 2008 at 4:54 pm
I am a Christian, but frankly, I’m worried about any potential leader who believes that the world was literally created in six days, as Sarah Palin appears to believe. It flies in the face of every scrap of scientific evidence that exists, and shows a willingness to ignore the obvious hard facts in order to cling to a literalist interpretation of scripture. It also concerns me that she seems to think that Bush’s invasion of Iraq was a mission from God. I think it could be dangerous to have somone with that mindset in the Oval Office with their finger on the button.
posted September 18, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Thank you.
But, Steve, in all due respect, while vice presidential candidates are on the radar screen and should be considered, I strongly believe it is a patriotic duty, if you will, to pay attention to the candidates for president at this point, and it is time for them to give answers of substance.
Perhaps McCain and Obama are moving in that direction, but for a person like me who believes in voting for my country and not for a candidate, it is critical to know where each candidate will lead. And, you know what, I would like to know who will most likely be offering advice to either of these men once they win office.
Because this is a critical time both domestically and internationally, I think this country needs to ask the best of both of these candidates and that would be to offer us a clear choice based on the issues. It may be a scary proposition, but so is the alternative.
posted September 18, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Bravo to Steve Waldman on this.
Let’s avoid a double standard here involving Governor Palin’s religious beliefs, no matter how incredible they may “seem” to some people. After all, Barack Obama believes that a Galilean carpenter named Jesus rose from the dead nearly 2,000 years ago. Joe Lieberman, the 2000 Democratic VP nominee, believes that God spoke to Moses on top of a Sinai mountain and engraved ten commandments for Moses to take down the mountain. Jimmy Carter believes both of these things. Nobody is questioning the judgement of these three Democrats nor has Oliphant egregriously and gratuitously lampooned their beliefs in a political cartoon.
posted September 19, 2008 at 8:36 am
I guess maybe I was too harsh. Thank you for addressing this double standard.
However I feel that claims like she has made need to be scrutinized to see if they are really from God.
Its very hard for me to not think Palin is lying. Unlike most people she has told several big whoppers that have 0 fact to me and the entire world that is watching this race. Trying to stop a legit investigation frankly just makes her look guilty. Not using gov’t email to skirt the rules is also not good.
And I ask on the benefit of the doubt when do we draw a line? When do we not trust them?
“fool me once shame on you. fool me twice shame on me”
posted September 19, 2008 at 4:22 pm
I am glad that her faith is strong, her convictions are deep and her
love and dependency for the Lord is apparent. If you read about the purpose of a prayer language or “tongues” it is a personal communication with the Lord. I say if she takes time to have that with him, wonderful for us all. We definitely need divine guidance to
figure out the plans for our nation.
posted September 19, 2008 at 9:44 pm
People who berate and vilify others just because they hear things from them they do not want to hear, say plenty of negative things about themselves and effectively disqualify themselves form participating in a fair and civilized exchange. Religious concepts are deeply rooted in human emotion and are an integral part of the human experience. Science has greatly advanced over many centuries using a different tool of a human being called rational thinking. Religion can hardly offer concrete, verifiable answers to the pressing problems of humanity and, while science cannot answer all questions, is a much more reliable tool for solving problems. People who are deeply religious, can be good leaders provided they are committed to dealing with facts in their daily business and keep their religious ideas to themselves. In the final analysis, no one can foretell what an elected president or any official will be guided by while discharging their duties in office be it a religious or secular person. Maybe just maybe some day, instead of electing a presidential candidate, one of the most vitriolic critics should be forced to hold the highest office for awhile to see what they could do. How scary would that be for all of us?
posted September 20, 2008 at 11:34 am
I truley think what a president believes and what they do are seperate and to think their faith would somehow harm the nation is ludicris,being any decision they make would have to be passed through congress and by the people in general the pres,does not hold as much power as we would like to think,economicly,militarily or other is checked by congress thank GOD our gov,isnt run by one person if the president was an aithiest that still wouldnt change much in the way things are ran in the white house.
posted September 21, 2008 at 11:44 am
I know people that speak in tongues, and they are people I would trust. I don’t know if she speaks in tongues or not, I do not trust S. Palin to be our VP, or McCain. Alaska’s editorial in Fairbanks News yesterday stated that the “McCain for President Group” are taking over their state government and they are not in anyway pleased about it. They’ve all but stopped the investigation going on with her husband getting into the governors business, and the case about her firing her ex-brother-in-law or some such thing. No body is supposed to question this woman, she is completely protected by McCain and entourage. The state of Alaska should impeach her right on the spot.
posted September 21, 2008 at 2:18 pm
The question of the sanity of a candidate is a serious issue. The act of speaking in tongues is something that is not sane. It means that something has been seriously short-circuited in the brain, if only for a few moments, a temporary manifestation of profound mental illness, and that is not a quality that is desirable in a candidate for Vice President.
In the case of an ordinary Pentecostal, the momentary lapse of brain function is not a serious issue. They go on with their lives and if those lives are informed by their religion it does not hurt them very much. But the thought that someone who may someday have access to a nuclear arsenal has a brain that spontaneously misfires is cause for alarm.
posted September 21, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Please forgive this follow up but this is important.
Glossalalia is not an exclusively Christian phenomena but there are common qualities in everyone who practices it which directly relate to the brain and social function.
The actual moment that it occurs is a shock to the brain, it ceases to function in its normal manner, and that is why the tongue phenomena occurs. This normally only lasts a few seconds to a couple of minutes but at that time the person is absolutely non-functional in a clinical sense.
That is followed by a period of between ten minutes to approximately an hour of extreme euphoria, the average time being about 35 minutes. This is the rough equivalent of being on some very heavy anti-depressants. Judgement at this time is virtually non-existant. The person is, for all practical purposes, a vegetable.
This is followed by a period of heightened euphoria that can last as long as 24 to 48 hours, during which time the person is convinced of absolute divine favor and whose judgements are significantly impaired.
Now, consider this. Palin, God forbid, is put into a position of making a crisis decision. Her natural reaction is to get divine help. And during the course of that she experiences tongues. If that occurs, for the next 24 hours the country is faced with someone who is convinced that she can do no wrong, God is on her side, in fact God has spoken through her!
In other words, during that time she is nutty as the proverbial fruitcake. It is not a question of religion, it is the way the chemistry of the brain works! Tongues are the spiritual equivalent of crack cocaine in their effect on the life of the person.
So yes, it does matter that she speaks in tongues and it matters very much. All of our lives could very well depend on her being sane at the very moment when she would be very much insane.
posted September 21, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Where on earth did you get this psudo-scientific mumbo jumbo about how the brain works? All the gifts of the spirit are mentioned in the Bible, so are you an atheist with a remarkable understanding of the human brain? Ridiculous. You really don’t know the first thing about Speaking in tongues or Prophecy in the Penecostal Religion, or you would know that the ones who speak in tongues do only that and another person with the gift of prophesy interprets it. The only thing insane here is your take on it.
posted September 22, 2008 at 2:14 am
As an Alaskan and a christian, believe me when I now say Alaskans are in shock of John McCain’s appointment of our Govenor Sarah Palin to the Whitehouse. She is clearly unqualified. We are excited to be a part of a LOST state in America that’s gone Hollywood but we are strong and committed to how our great state is being governed. We are doing all we can to get the “troopergate” situation resolved. Palin has only been a member of her church for 6 years. The little Assembly of God church she attends has to lock it’s doors to keep news reporters out now. Folks can not even worship there on Sundays in peace. My brother is a Penecostal preacher and sometimes I went to hear him speak. Many seemed to be “talking in tounges” during the 7 hour long service. Once I went to my Episcopal pastor and asked what he thinks. He had said he could talk in tongues too. Also a former Nun in my hometown said she was blessed with this gift also. As for me, I would only believe it to be true if it actually did happen to me… Keep the faith all!!!
-susan47
posted September 22, 2008 at 10:16 am
Brain misfiring while speaking in tongues? Insanity? And you know this how? Please don’t judge things of a spiritual dimension that you apparently know nothing about. Your life doesn’t depend on Sarah Palin. The very breath you breathe depends on God.
posted September 22, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Who knows whether Sarah speaks in tongues or not? Personally I don’t care. I do know that her stands on abortion, and stem cell research and the questions I have of her qualifications means this pagan isn’t voting McCain/Palin.
posted September 24, 2008 at 4:12 pm
I agree that the cartoonist most likely would come under a lot more scrutiny if he attacked Islam or Judaism. For some reason attacking pentecostalism is so much more entertaining to some people. Either way, our nation is developing a double standard that says, “Please no religion in politics” but praises politicians who claim to have no religion at all, Islam (and this is not directed at Obama, I am in no way stating he is of the Muslim faith, to do so would be ignorant), or some other religion. If our government is to exclude Christianity, then it should exclude Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, etc. As a Christian, I first found the cartoon to be offensive, but then I just felt sorry for the guy because not only did he alienate his readers and offend them, he showed his complete lack of understanding of Christianity, pentecostalism, speaking in tongues, and so on. It astonishes me the ignorance displayed by the media in our culture that claims to be so forward thinking.