The Case Against Religulous -- Taking Quotes Out of Context

I doubt if I will see "Religulous", so I won't comment on the film itself in any discussions. I think, though, that anyone who has ever seen anything from Maher--whether it was on his old show (from which he was fired for saying what he really thought) "Politically Incorrect", his current HBO show "Real Time", any of his HBO specials, or even any of his guest appearances on other people's shows, and I have seen all that I just mentioned--should already know very well what his point of view is, which is that he hates all religion and sees it, all of it, as a bad thing for the world. Heck, just one look at the poster for the film, which we can actually see on b'net's home page (I don't quite get that) will tell you what the film is about! And that's why I probably won't see the movie because, hey, Bill, I get it, you hate religion, you've been saying that for years; I don't need to spend $10 to hear you say it again. Actually, I like Maher's HBO show, and I miss it now that I've moved and don't get HBO anymore. He gets people talking with each other, and he does try to bring in divergent political and social viewpoints. But when it comes to his religion-bashing, to me it's a little like living near a busy airport; after awhile, you don't hear the planes flying overhead. I don't really hear Maher's religion-bashing anymore because I've heard it so much.

I do agree with you Andrew, though, that it probably isn't quite accurate to call Maher's film a "documentary". Perhaps one can better call it a satire, a time-honored form of literature and social commentary, but different from a documentary.

"Why not be honest? Why not be up-front about your point of view, your bias, why not say the point being argued is this...? "

Because Maher presumes his audience of doubters will also doubt him.

I am sure that Maher, like Michael Moore, would say that this is not so much journalism as advocacy. But Moore thoroughly documents his films, provides back-up materials, and responds to those who challenge his facts. Maher has no pretense of being "fair and balanced." A character in the movie wears a sign that says, "Don't believe anyone. Even me."

Maher comes down on the side of doubt. While I don't think his movie is effective in its advocacy of abandoning religion entirely, I think doubt is an essential element of faith, burnishing and refining it.

"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
Wilson Mizner

@Rob The perfect response. Thanks.

Why are you afraid of doubt? Why do the questions people have bother you? The full quote does not change the meaning. People need religion to stay "good" or to do "bad" and then be forgiven. Weak minds follow this idea. Jefferson did not trust in the intelligence of the common man. What would he think of "Joe Six-Pack"?

I absolutely loved the film and everyone in the packed audience where I live in Orlando Florida laughed throughout and applauded at the end.

THe quotation, if you look at the rest of it STILL says that the clergy from his childhood were FANATICS! Doesn't that still then say what he's trying to convey: that these people CAN be fanatics and make the world a terrible place! Yes, I think either way the quotation says the same thing.

Why does it always seem that religious fanatics and in this country those Palin supporters have cut out part of their brains in order to not use any logic or fact in any of their arguments EVER!

In case you should believe me to be an agnostic or atheist, I am not. I believe religions do a lot of good in the world. And I believe in a higher power. I meditate regularly and have even prayed many times in my life. The problem is that many religous people start trying to push their religious beliefs onto others and dictate to others based on their personal religious views... well guess what, my God is not your God and it's a very personal thing.

AND when people start all that nonsense, the violence--at abortion clincs, the killing of Milk, all the horrible wars based on religious extremism. YES, CHRISTIANS THAT MEANS YOU ALL TOO!!!! READ YOUR HISTORY!!!
SO YES, the world would be better off without organized religions and replaced with a spiritualism that includes us all--a belief system that unites rather than divides!

You mean like McCain planning to make permanent the tax breaks to the ultra-rich when he himself owns a dozen cars and houses? Yes, that does seem to be hypocritical to his fellow Americans.

Great film. Someone needed to say it. He makes reference to his beliefs in his TV stuff, but to give it such extensive, objective treatment is a breath of fresh air. Expect more and more logical, rational people to admit their disgust with the absurd fallacy that is religion.

Christ-like is not a bad way to try to live, but it's ok to refer to "knowing right from wrong", "helping your fellow man", etc. in the terms of whichever work of fiction you prefer. Argue with this if you will, but there are many perspectives and many myths, fairy-tales, parables, etc. that make good points.

BTW, Maher was pretty clear about where his bias falls. He made no attempt to deny it. He also never called it a documentary. He makes a lot of good points. The bible is flawed because the men who wrote it and translated were biased, albeit well-intentioned. The "righteous" are often (almost always) hypocritical and judgmental, and "faith" creates divisiveness and elite-ism. Say what you want, but you can't make any of it make sense without blind faith, which is another way of saying "ignorance of logic and reason." Ignore logic and reason if you want to, but you'll use it when it's convenient and you won't always recognize it as the delicious fruit from the "tree of knowledge" and you won't realize that you're supposed to ask forgiveness and try to never use logic and reason again to avoid burning for eternity, but since the idea of hell is utter nonsense, you have nothing to worry about. Every argument between a religious person and any intelligent person of objective logic and rationalism always ends without the thinkers points being proven wrong and with the religious person becoming obstinate and attacking the thinker's motives or his verbage or his mental ability, usually behind his back, but never addressing the actual logical points and never proving that they can't be true even though the thinker proved the religious points to be nonsense. And, yes, the thinker always proves the believer's beliefs to be nonsense if he intelligently pursues proof. That's why the believer needs faith, so he doesn't have to deny the nonsensical. But I digress. God bless Bill Maher!! (Shut up!! It's a figure of speech. We can use it if we want to. Rational people know what we mean.)

Bummer about the full John Adams quote being as it is. I thought more highly of Adams than that.

I saw the movie, it was good. Maher takes the religions to task which claim to be REVELATORY (which is probably why he left out Hinduism and African animism religions). "Revealed" religion in the form of Judaism, Christianity, Islam - and, yes, Mormonism and Scientology (to some extent). The idea that the God of Creation would only "reveal" himself to a single individual (who the REST of humanity is supposed to believe) is the ultimate insanity. It is anti-thetical to rational thought and if we were to run our businesses, governments or lives on this unilateral capitulation to someone else's world view - we would be in the same state of conformity as Nazi Germany to Hitler, Russians to Lenin or Iranian Shiites to the Council of Clerics in that country.

It's absolutely stupid not to question authority!

And THAT is why our founding fathers were so suspicious of Church/Government alignments to the point that they wanted to create a firewall between the two. Government would not control religion and there would be NO state sanctioned (official) religion in this country. Democracy REQUIRES questioning the states authority to exercise power over the people. Religion DEMANDS acceptance of dogma and creed and subordination to a hierarchy of "more learned men". The two are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE in the successful working of a modern democracy !!!

So instead of Jefferson saying that the world would be better off without religion, he's saying that the world would be better off without religion but that people are too stupid to get along without it.

I'd say that's even more damning than the portion of the quote that Maher included in his film.

All the criticisms of this movie are against Bill Maher himself and never provide a counter-argument of the real content and point of this film.

SO, you post the entire quote, which essentially says that people couldn't survive in this world without religion after the portion Maher used in the film. This seems more of a sarcastic remark made against people and their codependency rather than a quote supporting religion. No one has offered one shred of what can be considered a compelling or rational argument opposing the message in the movie. Maher is also very well founded in saying that religious people will always pull one part of the bible, or one coincidence throughout all of history that think is the end all be all of this subject. The Bible contradicts ITSELF at so many points it's ridiculous. The Bible promotes some of the most terrible and immoral things a person can do. This is the basis for your morality? Please, tell me you have something else. You have selected one quote from the movie to try and discredit the message. Really? Tell me you have more. Your point about this quote doesn't even make sense. You are simply taking it to mean what you want it to, not what it so obviously says.

Here's a quote for you.

"Contrary to what your church may have told you, atheists do not automatically turn to hedonism and anarchy. In fact, those who suggest that a man must be ethically restrained by a religion reveal, quite frankly, just how deep-seated their own morals are. "

-Jason Curry

And another...

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

-Stephen Roberts

The problem is you do not understand why you dismiss all other gods. You know only that you think you are right and therefore all else is wrong. Tell me why all gods outside of Christianity or invalid and I will think about maybe considering you have a valid point in any of this. Offer me one rational argument as to why Christianity is more valid and true than any others. You won't find anything, so I guess we are done here.

If you could only be a bit more open minded you might see how you alienate all the people of the world with propaganda. How frustrating your unfounded and ignorant arguments are to people that believe in something as deeply as you do.

Religion aside... Life & Death, cycle of life, Earth, sun, stars, the human body, gravity, rain, trees, fire, pregnancy, lightning, clouds, the engineering and the marvel in nature's design, insects, wings, motherhood... and the list goes on... who is this amazing engineer, inventor, creator... Why arent we, the intelligent species able to create or even re-create? Religions aside, why isnt Bill Maher and all the other Mahers in this world able to create or re-create.

how does the planet earth break the 2nd law of thermodynamics? whether you believe in evolution or not, we still exist with a level of understanding that is higher than anything else in this world - a world over flowing with life (carl sagan anyone? from cosmos series intro). we have been looking for a very long time to find life on other planets, and waiting to hear from one of them for nearly as long (SETI... yawn).

fact: earth is special
fact: we break a scientific law by existing

"science and reasoning can explain why we have matter, but they cannot explain why we have science and reasoning"

Maggie, im pretty sure Bill Maher is not comparing himself to god or the great creator. hes mostly wondering why you think you have all the complexities of life figured out with some belief system created and tweaked at the discretions of men. also, i have created millions of independent thoughts and original ideas in my lifetime...is that not creating.

Let's see ... a great number of comments by atheists on this article seem to fall into a few patterns:

#1. "Aww, John Adams wasn't an anti-religious atheist after all? Shucks, I was hoping he was as intolerant--I mean, 'clear-minded'--as me!"

#2. "Some 'case' you have! All you did was post the full quote, and it's even worse than what Maher used! Haw haw!"

I shake my head sadly at those in camp #1. For those in camp #2, I say: "Take a look at the other articles written about Religulous. There's more to Maher's deception than a single quote taken out of context."

Though, I don't expect people who agree with Bill Maher to admit his intellectual dishonesty.

Fred I belong to a Church that spends thousands of dollars and thousands of volunteer hours in doing good for mankind the world over. What does Maher and his followers do along these areas of life??

Oh and hey Anonymous I'm atheist and do those things with out an invisible man in the sky telling me if I don't I go to hell. Be good cause its the right thing to do not because of fear of the invisible man!