The Case Against Religulous -- The Misleading Francis Collins Interview
Friday October 3, 2008
I was initially impressed that Bill Maher interviewed Francis Collins, the brilliant scientist who led the human genome project and who has written eloquently about being both a believer and a scientist. But in the movie, Collins seemed uncharacteristically confused,...
Being from Alabama and also being "left" of center I have found Mahr to have devolved into a silly and sarcastic person. I at one time found him funny but he has no balance and attacks those different from him with bareley concealed anger. Snide remarks about Alabama and the south without really knowing the people or the places he attacks. I'm no fan of george bush and I'm certainly not a right wing zealont but I do think I'm fair minded and treat people the way I would want to be treated. I am so sick of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and the bullies and hawks who have never taken up arms themselves for this nation. Yet what does the left offer? Smirks and snide dummies like Mahr and Keith Olberman who have become the very thing they profess to hate.
Victor Rambo
October 3, 2008 4:12 PM
Interesting comment above by Mr. Snead of Alabama. I appreciate his fairness and willingness to see flaws right and left. I think it sad that he himself engages in a similar non sequitur in name calling and vilifying Limbaugh and Hannity (hated by the left) using the "logic" that they have never taken up arms in the U.S. military.
Mere Catholic
October 3, 2008 5:07 PM
It's unfortunate, but not surprising, that Bill Maher chose to make a mockery of Dr. Collins. I heard Dr. Collins give a great talk on science and faith last night and what impressed me most about him, besides his obvious intelligence and list of accomplishments, was his great humility. He talked about many things, but never beyond his capabilities. Bill Maher would be wise to do the same. I've heard that Kerry Kennedy's new book on Catholicism includes an interview with Bill Maher. Does she think that somehow Maher exempts her from one of the "religulous"?.
Don
October 3, 2008 6:19 PM
Maher is a comic. People are treating him far too seriously. I always give agnostics and atheists Raymond Smullyan's marvelous book called "Who Knows?", and then I find that I can have an intelligent discussion with them.
jestrfyl
October 4, 2008 12:13 AM
I saw this movie this afternoon, and I agree this was one of the lesser segments that could have ben greater. Granted, Maher was looking for an easy joke to tie a complicated topic together. I expect his rambling was a product of have the seed of a good concept but no idea how to make it work. This was one of a few weak segments. But the good segments were so good I think the movie was worth my time and money - I rarely pay retail for movie tickets- preferring our $1.50 theater a few weeks later. But I count this as $7.50 well spent.
Don, I also like Smullyan's work and have given a few copies of his books away. There is a guy I would like to spend some time with.
Oster
October 4, 2008 1:57 AM
Collins was a bad match for Religulous, because the theme of the movie doesn't lend itself to the best use of time with Collins; complementary belief in God and evolution. I was personally anticipating Maher, as an agnostic, would have been very interested in hearing Collins's views on belief in God and evolution, as was I. So it was a bit of a let down for me that Maher completely avoided the subject.
Not to say Maher isn't interested in a complementary belief in God and science, just that my anticipation was set with the introduction of Collins, and that anticipation went unfulfilled.
I have to say the Collins interview was a missed opportunity, and I would still love to see Maher interview Collins on belief in God and evolution.
Reaganite in NYC
October 4, 2008 8:01 PM
Thanks for posting this Steve.
One has to wonder what makes Bill Maher tick. A silly man, hero to millions of silly people. One day he'll wake up, old and wrinkled, look at himself in the mirror, and cry at the utter waste he made of his life.
Warren Cheswick
October 4, 2008 8:28 PM
These comments are fascinating.
I don't think that Maher will "cry at the utter waste he made of his life," as Reaganite claims. But then, that's just Reaganite being Reaganite. Maher is an entertainer and a comedian, and he has spent his life doing what he enjoys. To call him a "silly" man is "silly" itself. He is always looking at a satirical way of approaching subjects on his show, but there is a great deal of "seriousness" in everything he does. For someone to fail to acknowledge this shows either he/she hasn't spent much time watching Maher's show, or has an ideological axe to grind him/herself.
After seeing the film this afternoon I felt that it was a pretty hilarious romp on religious stupidity and hypocrisy, of which there is plenty of in our land (and in the world). His choice of targets was more about shock value and comic effect than it was about getting a "fair and balanced" look at these big questions he was asking. He avoided people like Taylor Field, a devout Christian who has spent his life helping the poor in NYC, and focused instead on people like Jesus Miranda, who claims he is the descendant of Jesus and who has made a fortune at playing this role. And Maher's peroration got very dark and "preachy," which ruined the light-hearted tone of the rest of the film. So it wasn't a perfect film. But he does ask many excellent questions, and I think the film as a whole is entertaining and should help spark some much-needed discussion. Everyone should see it - especially those who consider themselves "religious."
Joe
October 5, 2008 4:23 PM
I saw Religulous last night. Excellent subject matter. Stellar entertainment. No other comedian could have pulled off such a serious subject with that kind of delicate balance between gravity and wit. He used humor to disarm people, who were then left to question their own peculiar and ridiculous miscalculations. It seems that his goal is just to open peoples eyes and ask them if they care that they are being shepherded off a cliff. It can't hurt to ask, Right?
Sure Maher was deceptive. It's the norm in this mockumentary game. I'm not here to defend that. But I do have to point out that he made Collins look bad and it was perfectly justified. If Collins wants to believe in God and evolution that's fine (in fact, as I'm sure he'd appreciate, his belief in a God is partially rooted in his genetic makeup). But why does he insist on believing in this mythical Jesus figure and all the strange religious trappings of the Catholic Church? There's no good reason a scientist like him should, and Maher nailed him on it.
Michael Heath
June 9, 2009 7:37 AM
Dr. Collins argued for the historical validity of the gospel story's supernatural claims in near absolute terms. Mr. Maher merely asked him to back up that assertion given his own understanding there was no evidence. Collins was perfectly incapable of adequately rebutting Maher's doubt, confirming that Collins claim was a lie he told even to himself, i.e., that Collins faith did not stand on evidence, contrary to his original assertion, it instead stood on mere faith alone.
This segment of the interview is very worthy of inclusion into the movie given it's my perception this sort of dialogue is very representative of evangelicals, which also runs directly counter to the methods of science. As a leader within the scientific community, Dr. Collins should know better than to misrepresent the basis of his faith and promote an explanation with no empirical evidence to support it. In addition it's newsworthy that even a scientific leader succumbs to religious faith without possession of evidence.
clarence puckett
July 13, 2009 12:03 PM
A person who has had a genuine born again experience cannot be both;
a creationist and or an evolutionist, there ceases to be a pick and choose, you have to believe in creation according to the genesis account[no big bang also]you can be very professional and elite in life and still not know Jesus Christ as the author of your salvation, he either made you into a different person or you remain the same unchanged religious person.
FRED010933
August 6, 2009 4:47 AM
On a recent award show Maher showed his true colors, his pp, so to speak; pissy petulance! His "wonderful" documentary had not made the final cut. Was it the "Emmies"? Hey Bill, how about a little grace, charity, magnanimity,love,chivalry? And...they need not come from a God, but they do grow out of contemplation, virtuous action and informedness.
Sincerely, FredworkingtobeFred
Ashley Hall
August 16, 2009 2:33 PM
Francis Collins is brilliant, but he is a scientist and not a New Testament expert. There are thousands of experts who could give good evidence for the historicity of the Gospels, but Bill did not talk to them. His expertise lies in the ability to believe in both God and evolution (I personally believe both). I think that if we do not acknowledge that evolution is not incompatible with Christianity, then there will be a lot more ignorant folks in our faith.
I'm a Christian and I admit that I do not have certainty in what I believe, but atheists don't either. That's where faith comes in. You make a conscious decision to believe one this or another based on experience, personal preference, etc. I do have a great deal of evidence that shows belief in God and Jesus is very justified, even though there is never certainty when it comes to this kind of history (and yet we still believe in Julius Caeser and Alexander the Great).
People rarely believe one thing or another because of intellectual evidence (or lack thereof). Bill Mahar is no exception, and he sees what he wants to see in the religious community. it is a lot easier to argue against a group if you characterize them as ignorant. Christians do the same thing with atheists, and the best way to have dialogue is to avoid these sweeping generalizations.
clarence puckett
September 23, 2009 12:44 AM
I had my testimony and lost it on here somehow; anyway, people like bill mayer has a long way to go to un-convince me of the saving grace of Jesus Christ[30 years saved].
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Being from Alabama and also being "left" of center I have found Mahr to have devolved into a silly and sarcastic person. I at one time found him funny but he has no balance and attacks those different from him with bareley concealed anger. Snide remarks about Alabama and the south without really knowing the people or the places he attacks. I'm no fan of george bush and I'm certainly not a right wing zealont but I do think I'm fair minded and treat people the way I would want to be treated. I am so sick of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and the bullies and hawks who have never taken up arms themselves for this nation. Yet what does the left offer? Smirks and snide dummies like Mahr and Keith Olberman who have become the very thing they profess to hate.
Interesting comment above by Mr. Snead of Alabama. I appreciate his fairness and willingness to see flaws right and left. I think it sad that he himself engages in a similar non sequitur in name calling and vilifying Limbaugh and Hannity (hated by the left) using the "logic" that they have never taken up arms in the U.S. military.
It's unfortunate, but not surprising, that Bill Maher chose to make a mockery of Dr. Collins. I heard Dr. Collins give a great talk on science and faith last night and what impressed me most about him, besides his obvious intelligence and list of accomplishments, was his great humility. He talked about many things, but never beyond his capabilities. Bill Maher would be wise to do the same. I've heard that Kerry Kennedy's new book on Catholicism includes an interview with Bill Maher. Does she think that somehow Maher exempts her from one of the "religulous"?.
Maher is a comic. People are treating him far too seriously. I always give agnostics and atheists Raymond Smullyan's marvelous book called "Who Knows?", and then I find that I can have an intelligent discussion with them.
I saw this movie this afternoon, and I agree this was one of the lesser segments that could have ben greater. Granted, Maher was looking for an easy joke to tie a complicated topic together. I expect his rambling was a product of have the seed of a good concept but no idea how to make it work. This was one of a few weak segments. But the good segments were so good I think the movie was worth my time and money - I rarely pay retail for movie tickets- preferring our $1.50 theater a few weeks later. But I count this as $7.50 well spent.
Don, I also like Smullyan's work and have given a few copies of his books away. There is a guy I would like to spend some time with.
Collins was a bad match for Religulous, because the theme of the movie doesn't lend itself to the best use of time with Collins; complementary belief in God and evolution. I was personally anticipating Maher, as an agnostic, would have been very interested in hearing Collins's views on belief in God and evolution, as was I. So it was a bit of a let down for me that Maher completely avoided the subject.
Not to say Maher isn't interested in a complementary belief in God and science, just that my anticipation was set with the introduction of Collins, and that anticipation went unfulfilled.
I have to say the Collins interview was a missed opportunity, and I would still love to see Maher interview Collins on belief in God and evolution.
Thanks for posting this Steve.
One has to wonder what makes Bill Maher tick. A silly man, hero to millions of silly people. One day he'll wake up, old and wrinkled, look at himself in the mirror, and cry at the utter waste he made of his life.
These comments are fascinating.
I don't think that Maher will "cry at the utter waste he made of his life," as Reaganite claims. But then, that's just Reaganite being Reaganite. Maher is an entertainer and a comedian, and he has spent his life doing what he enjoys. To call him a "silly" man is "silly" itself. He is always looking at a satirical way of approaching subjects on his show, but there is a great deal of "seriousness" in everything he does. For someone to fail to acknowledge this shows either he/she hasn't spent much time watching Maher's show, or has an ideological axe to grind him/herself.
After seeing the film this afternoon I felt that it was a pretty hilarious romp on religious stupidity and hypocrisy, of which there is plenty of in our land (and in the world). His choice of targets was more about shock value and comic effect than it was about getting a "fair and balanced" look at these big questions he was asking. He avoided people like Taylor Field, a devout Christian who has spent his life helping the poor in NYC, and focused instead on people like Jesus Miranda, who claims he is the descendant of Jesus and who has made a fortune at playing this role. And Maher's peroration got very dark and "preachy," which ruined the light-hearted tone of the rest of the film. So it wasn't a perfect film. But he does ask many excellent questions, and I think the film as a whole is entertaining and should help spark some much-needed discussion. Everyone should see it - especially those who consider themselves "religious."
I saw Religulous last night. Excellent subject matter. Stellar entertainment. No other comedian could have pulled off such a serious subject with that kind of delicate balance between gravity and wit. He used humor to disarm people, who were then left to question their own peculiar and ridiculous miscalculations. It seems that his goal is just to open peoples eyes and ask them if they care that they are being shepherded off a cliff. It can't hurt to ask, Right?
An atheist's critique of Religilous:
http://www.peaceinearth.com/?p=18
Sure Maher was deceptive. It's the norm in this mockumentary game. I'm not here to defend that. But I do have to point out that he made Collins look bad and it was perfectly justified. If Collins wants to believe in God and evolution that's fine (in fact, as I'm sure he'd appreciate, his belief in a God is partially rooted in his genetic makeup). But why does he insist on believing in this mythical Jesus figure and all the strange religious trappings of the Catholic Church? There's no good reason a scientist like him should, and Maher nailed him on it.
Dr. Collins argued for the historical validity of the gospel story's supernatural claims in near absolute terms. Mr. Maher merely asked him to back up that assertion given his own understanding there was no evidence. Collins was perfectly incapable of adequately rebutting Maher's doubt, confirming that Collins claim was a lie he told even to himself, i.e., that Collins faith did not stand on evidence, contrary to his original assertion, it instead stood on mere faith alone.
This segment of the interview is very worthy of inclusion into the movie given it's my perception this sort of dialogue is very representative of evangelicals, which also runs directly counter to the methods of science. As a leader within the scientific community, Dr. Collins should know better than to misrepresent the basis of his faith and promote an explanation with no empirical evidence to support it. In addition it's newsworthy that even a scientific leader succumbs to religious faith without possession of evidence.
A person who has had a genuine born again experience cannot be both;
a creationist and or an evolutionist, there ceases to be a pick and choose, you have to believe in creation according to the genesis account[no big bang also]you can be very professional and elite in life and still not know Jesus Christ as the author of your salvation, he either made you into a different person or you remain the same unchanged religious person.
On a recent award show Maher showed his true colors, his pp, so to speak; pissy petulance! His "wonderful" documentary had not made the final cut. Was it the "Emmies"? Hey Bill, how about a little grace, charity, magnanimity,love,chivalry? And...they need not come from a God, but they do grow out of contemplation, virtuous action and informedness.
Sincerely, FredworkingtobeFred
Francis Collins is brilliant, but he is a scientist and not a New Testament expert. There are thousands of experts who could give good evidence for the historicity of the Gospels, but Bill did not talk to them. His expertise lies in the ability to believe in both God and evolution (I personally believe both). I think that if we do not acknowledge that evolution is not incompatible with Christianity, then there will be a lot more ignorant folks in our faith.
I'm a Christian and I admit that I do not have certainty in what I believe, but atheists don't either. That's where faith comes in. You make a conscious decision to believe one this or another based on experience, personal preference, etc. I do have a great deal of evidence that shows belief in God and Jesus is very justified, even though there is never certainty when it comes to this kind of history (and yet we still believe in Julius Caeser and Alexander the Great).
People rarely believe one thing or another because of intellectual evidence (or lack thereof). Bill Mahar is no exception, and he sees what he wants to see in the religious community. it is a lot easier to argue against a group if you characterize them as ignorant. Christians do the same thing with atheists, and the best way to have dialogue is to avoid these sweeping generalizations.
I had my testimony and lost it on here somehow; anyway, people like bill mayer has a long way to go to un-convince me of the saving grace of Jesus Christ[30 years saved].
Post a Comment
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