Who Are The Obamagelicals?

I would like to ask McCain's Evangelicals that had "character" as the second most important issue about what they think of McCain's nonstop lies about Obama's tax plan. The McCain lies started in June or before and continued until election day.

Palin also repeated the lie's about Obama's tax plan. Over 50 percent of people polled believed McCain/Palin's lies.

The tax lies were debunked over and over by factcheck, politifact, and many other independent sources.

Character? I think not!

As an evangelical pastor this survey concerns me. When young evangelicals begin to espouse the philosophies of the world and state that the Bible "may contain God's Word, though not fully", we're doing something wrong in our churches. This appears to be reflected in the opinions regarding abortion, stem cell research, etc. It's also reflected in Scruffy's comment up above. Nowhere does the Bible give us permission to interpret God's Word the way we please. In fact, it speaks quite forcefully against that.

You can call yourself a "moderate" if you like, but if you are denying that the entire Bible is God's Word, you have already embraced theological liberalism.

I heard Billy Graham a few years ago on Larry King telling him that he felt like a failure. "Why?", King asked. "Because look at the state our country is in," Graham said. "It's worse now than it was before I started."

This poll seems to reflect that too. It looks like we need to do a lot more praying and Bible teaching about simple concepts like morals, the gift of life, and the supremacy of God's Word on matters of faith and life.

Only 19.7% of McCain's evangelical supporters believes Obama "was never a Muslim and is a practicing Christian." In other words, 80.3% of them believe something that is demonstrably untrue. Why? Not to be un-charitable, but are they too dim-witted to research the truth about the candidates beyond random conspiracy emails? Or is the belief that Obama was/is a Muslim just a proxy for being uncomfortable with a black president, a sentiment that many people would prefer not to admit to pollsters (or possibly to themselves)? How can anyone make a rational decision as a voter if they "cling" to a belief about a candidate that is factually incorrect?

I also find it interesting that the evangelical pastor commenting above states "Nowhere does the Bible give us permission to interpret God's Word the way we please". That's exactly what the Roman Catholic Church argued against Martin Luther in the 1500's. Protestantism, of which evangelicalism is an offshoot, was founded on the "Priesthood of the Believer", where every individual believer looks to his own conscience and guidance of the Holy Spirit when reading the Bible, without the need for intermediaries. For someone who calls himself an evangelical pastor to deny the most basic theological foundation of his own faith is odd and telling.

I was curious why you refer to some voters as Obamagelicals and others as McCain Evangelicals. It would come across as more professional and objective if you would remain consistent. Either McCainagelicals or Obama Evangelicals. If you could please share your rationale, thanks.

>And that's not counting the fact that he outright lied about his willingness to stick to public funding for his campaign.

Obama said that he would be willing to use public financing if John McCain would be willing to include the 527s in the agreement. McCain balked because he wanted the slime machine to do his dirty work for him.

Obama laid out clear conditions for his agreement to take public financing. McCain failed to meet those conditions. The rest is $600 million history.

That does *NOT* constitute a "lie" on Obama's part. That constitutes the biggest mistake that John McCain made (after choosing a secessionist with zero experience as a running mate).

Compare this to McCain who illegally used his wife's private plane for campaign purposes (by not properly reimbursing her for the usage) and for taking out a loan under false pretenses to rejuvenate his campaign.

It would be soooooo nice is Christians would actually *NOT* bear false witness against their neighbors for once.

Al,

Read Steven Waldman's September 15, 2008 article, "Is The Ninth Commandment* A Lesser One?" and "Christians Who Defame: What the Bible Has to Say" September 15, 2008

I heard Gov Bobby Jindal of Louisiana on MSNBC today. He was very astute about what the Republican need to do:

Actions have to match rhetoric
Route out corruption in own ranks - Sen. Stevens
Most importantly, Republicans have to develop "real" solutions: health care, economy, foreign
Cannot win by simply criticizing the opponent.

The election is over, people are tired of partisan attacks, we all need to work with President Elect Obama

http://tinyurl.com/5nmj77

McCain's campaign was based on attacking Obama and falsely pandering to Evangelicals about abortion.

I was commenting on how Obama's evangelicals ranked their priorities compared to how McCain's evangelicals ranked their priorities. Character was listed as number 2 for McCain and number 4 for Obama.

I realize that Obama made some false or stretched some statements and do not condone his actions. If I had the opportunity, I would tell Obama that I was very disappointed with a couple ads. For example; McCain opposed stem cell research is technically correct; however, McCain opposed stem cell research in 2001. The statement was true, but misleading like some of McCain's ads about Obama's tax plan. McCain currently supports stem cell research. I was angry when I heard the ad. It is true that the Republican Party and Palin oppose stem cell research. Obama's ad could have actually helped McCain with Evangelicals. I can provide rebuttal for some of the FactCheck and PolitiCheck analysis that concluded Obama made false statements or there was more truth than noted by FactCheck and PolitiCheck.

Obama also stretched ads about McCain and social security/medicare. The media never adequately covered the fact the McCain refused to answer questions about social security/medicare. Voters needed to hear how McCain planned to fund social security/medicare. It is a major issue for me.

In July, McCain's campaign managers stated that McCain was not accurate when he said an increase in social security tax may be needed. McCain immediately changed his statement to no new taxes on social security, but he would not say how he planned to fund social security. McCain's farce balance the budget had a line about reducing cost for social security/medicare; however, there was no detail to know how much.

Do a comparison of the attacks on the opponent. McCain's false statements had a huge negative affect on Obama, especially false statements about: taxes (constantly), born alive/infanticide, socialism, Bill Ayers, Rezko, most liberal voting record in the United States Senate, Obama, Biden and their liberal allies oppose clean coal, and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bill. "Senator Obama has voted 94 times to either increase your taxes or against tax cuts." "He made time to go to the gym, but canceled a visit with wounded troops. Seems the Pentagon wouldn’t allow him to bring cameras." "If you're a small business and don't "adopt the health care plan that Senator Obama mandates, he's going to fine you." In 1992, Barack Obama directed "Project Vote - an arm of ACORN that also encouraged voter registration." Obama's one education accomplishment was "legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners." (Pants on Fire Rating)

PolitiFact http://tinyurl.com/3nkbhr

Barry,

Barry said, "I certainly don't advocate hiding the Word from Christians as Catholics used to do. I am simply arguing that there is only ONE interpretation of Scripture, and that is the one given by the insight of the Holy Spirit."

Protestants and Catholics do not agree on several issues, the largest being the Pope. Who is correct? Why does it matter?

Barry said, "I heard Billy Graham a few years ago on Larry King telling him that he felt like a failure. "Why?", King asked. "Because look at the state our country is in," Graham said. "It's worse now than it was before I started.""

[strong]In the last few year, Billy Graham has had major changes in his approach to religion that contradicts, “The Bible is the literal word of God":[/strong]

Pilgrim's Progress, by Jon Meacham, Newsweek - Aug 14, 2006

"But more recent years have given him something he had little of in his decades of global evangelism: time to think both more deeply and more broadly. As he has grown older, Graham has come to an appreciation of complexity and a gentleness of spirit that sets him apart from many other high-profile figures in America's popular religious milieu--including, judging from their public remarks, his own son Franklin Graham, and men such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson."

"He is an evangelist still unequivocally committed to the Gospel, but increasingly thinks God's ways and means are veiled from human eyes and wrapped in mystery. "There are many things that I don't understand," he says. He does not believe that Christians need to take every verse of the Bible literally; "sincere Christians," he says, "can disagree about the details of Scripture and theology--absolutely"

Robert Schuller interview with Billy Graham (search youtube)

[strong]Jesus is NOT the only [/strong]

Schuller: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?

Billy Graham: Well, Christianity and being a true believer—you know, I think there’s the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they’re conscious of it or not, they’re members of the Body of Christ. And I don’t think that we’re going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God’s purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that’s what God is doing today, He’s calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they’ve been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don’t have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they’re going to be with us in heaven."

Obama succeeded in large part because of his many small donors- folks like me who donated 20, 50, 100 bucks once, twice or monthly. As someone stated above, McCain wouldn't give up the 527's- therefore Obama's decision to 'un-choose' public financing was reasonable and wise. As for the original topic, it is heartening to know that there are evangelicals who choose to educate themselves and think rationally. Let's hope it catches on.

From the survey page:

The survey is not scientific or based on random sampling.

So the survey is meaningless, and by extension so is the analysis.

If George W Bush is an example of a conservative evangelical Christian, then God please save the world from conservative Evangelical Christians, and who would want to be one? I don't want to be like George W Bush. I want to be spiritually aware, insightful of nuance, wise, empathetic, and a believer in the brotherhood of humanity.

Not all Obamagelicals are religious, and not all Obamagelicals believe in gay marriage. I wish the ultra-right would not portray us in this manner. Thank you.

This all demonstrates that so many people do not take the word of God and therefore God, seriously or seem to think God means it when he speaks. On abortion, gay marriage, for example God tells us--COMMANDS US to take him at this word, meaning that he is DEADLY serious about us accepting it and practicing it. What did he say to Adam--"if you eat of it (the forbidden fruit) you will SURELY die." They ate, adn sure enough, as promised by God, death came into the world as a result of their doing what he told them not to. That is the first place in the word that God shows us that he is the God who means what he says--and we are to obey it, nad if not we will suffer the consequences. So God means it. That means Christians have to be absolutley committed to study and accpetance of Gods word. Abortion is the killing of innocent life--that is FORBIDDEN by God in the Bible. Gay sex is FORBIDDEN the he Bible by God--so how could God countencance gay marriage if same gender sex is forbidden by Him? How DO Chrstians just brush this kind of thing aside? Afraid to be labelled "intolerant"? So many Christains do not study and read the word to accept it and obey and practice it without compromise as we ar told to strive to do--and it appears that Obama supporters are more guilty of this, although it certainly is a pervailing problem among Christains everywhere.