Gene Robinson's Offer and Challenge to Rick Warren: Beliefnet's Interview
Tuesday January 20, 2009
On Monday, I visited with Gene Robinson at St. Thomas Episcopal Church, the day after his historic prayer opening the inaugural ceremonies. We'll have video later but I wanted to quickly get up some of the highlights of what...
So this man isn't going to say a "Christian" prayer. Why should that come as a surprise?
Steve
January 20, 2009 9:47 AM
I find it amazing that this Christian minister equates Jesus Christ to "whatever". I also find it amazing that this man thinks only of the marginalized. In every interview there seems to be an element of victimization. Yes, Christ associated and taught to those on the fringe of society. But He did not accept them because they were on the fringe. He expected that they would learn His lesson and realize that He is the path to salvation...the ONLY path.
Isn't that the essence of being a Christian?
robroy
January 20, 2009 10:13 AM
So very lost. The harm that he has caused the Episcopal denomination, now the fastest declining, is stupefying. So many lies from this man
"All I could think of was If I were a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu I would feel so excluded. I would be screaming at the tv set - hey what about me!"
Probably, the same reaction I have when I hear a Hindu or Muslim praying...I quietly and respectively disagree. No shouting at the TV. What a ridiculous notion.
"I've been the reparative therapy route. I did that. My own experience is it doesn't work. I think what it does it that it teaches gay and lesbian people to become so self loathing that they are willing to not act in a natural way, and deprive themselves of the kind of love and support that makes life worthwhile, that makes sense of our own lives and being."
Exodus International, which has recently doubled in size, boasts a "cure" rate of 30-50%. No where near 100% but much higher than substance abuse programs which are in the single digits.
"The church got it wrong about slavery for 18-19 centuries."
Slavery only raised its head for a couple centuries in the past two millenium and it was the church (Wilberforce and the abolitionists) that put it down.
---
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
---
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Your Name
January 20, 2009 10:20 AM
Thanx to the above 3 posters for the 'blessings', since I know I am blessed when people curse me and revile me and say all manner of evil against me falsely and do it in Christ's name.
And the lies about Exodus's "success" rate only adds to the insanity being spouted about God's gay and lesbian children. Shame on all 3 of you. You speak of "lusts"; Robinson's life, inaugural prayer and testimony are all about love. Sorry you can't tell the difference.
Your Name
January 20, 2009 10:45 AM
I'm a Lutheran, a commissioned lay minister in my congregation, and a lesbian. I was happy to see Bishop Robinson included in the Inaugural celebrations (and irritated when his pre-Obama-concert prayer was "disappeared" by HBO). I also -- and I say this as someone who's been called to say prayers in groups that include persons of other faiths and nonbelievers -- understand the desire to be as inclusive as possible in a context that seeks to bring all citizens together. But if it were me saying the prayer -- I would have, somehow, acknowledged my own Christian faith even as I sought to gather up all the prayers of all the citizenry in my own...not because I need it or that God needs it, but because of people like the first three respondents to this post, who will use any opportunity to dismiss and disrespect the faith of their sisters and brothers in Christ who happen to be gay or lesbian. As a female Canadian politician, many years ago, noted in her own struggles to be taken seriously by the male-dominated political system, "Sometimes you have to work twice as hard to be thought half as good as a man. Fortunately, this is not difficult." While I know that those of us in the Christian G/L faith community will never be accepted by some of our coreligionists...we also don't need to give our detractors extra ammunition in questioning our Christian faith.
robroy
January 20, 2009 10:56 AM
If I would propose a radical modification of an organization, it would be incumbent for me to show that that modification won't bring the demise of the organization.
Mr. Robinson has been an unmitigated disaster for his tiny diocese (attendance down 17%, 6% in the last year alone, and disaster for the denomination, now the fastest declining.
For a church to buy into the "gay is OK" line is to commit ecclesiastical suicide. Look and continental Europe, look at Canada. Yet the lemmings now running the Episcopal denomination press forward over the cliffs. ELCA, Methodists and Presbyterians do you really want to follow them?
non-metaphysical stephen
January 20, 2009 1:12 PM
May God anoint Bishop Robinson and make him fruitful in all that he does, and may he be an instrument of hope to all the LGBT people who love Jesus but who are told by their churches that they are abominations.
Let us not reject those whom God has declared clean. Amen.
Your Name
January 20, 2009 2:48 PM
While I know we all tresspass and God's grace is overwhelming I pray that I will never forget to call sin SIN. If I lust, if I have unforgiveness, if I lie, if I trade natural affections for unnatural, PLEASE Holy Spirit keep me malleable enough to ask forgiveness and draw me close enough to you that I determine to press and overcome with Your Strength and repent. Take not Thy Spirit from me.
Robby
January 20, 2009 4:07 PM
I hope Pastor Warren stays out of this. He is NOT the "anti-gay" Pastor. He simply support Prop 8 during the last election cycle by emailing his congregation and some other associated Pastors expressing his views (as he should). There are so many more important issues to deal with as evangelical Christians.
Maplewood
January 20, 2009 4:42 PM
We make moral decisions in TEC not because they may help the attendance numbers, but because they are the right thing to do.
+Robinson speaks eloquently about doing the right thing, which is why, eventually, his diocese will "turn around".
Look: if you are tired of intolerance and judgementalism, you may find a home in the Episcopal Church.
Mark
January 21, 2009 1:55 AM
This was such a beautiful article, thank you so much.
God bless Gene Robinson and bless those poor, sad people above who have read his kind, loving, open-hearted words and still struggle to find reasons to hate. God bless them the most, they need Gods love the most.
Your Name
January 21, 2009 4:30 AM
I am sad to see that people criticize me and other posters because we question Robinson's faith. Speaking for myself, I not questioning his faith based on his homosexuality, I question his faith based on the idea that, as a Christian, one is supposed to accept that we are all sinners and that the only way to salvation is through Christ's sacrifice.
This is not "hate speech" and I not see how it can be constued as such.
Your Name
January 21, 2009 8:08 AM
Gene Robinson is a truly sad and needy sinner. Jesus, who came as the light of the world and brings freedom and life to those who are captive and dead in their sins, has become a marginal, ineffective player within his misguided ministry. I am not gay, but have spent much of my life under the oppression of the indwelling sin of lust. Praise God that I am set free. This freedom is available to all sinners. You too can be free! Allow the light of the Gospel to illuminate your dark world.
Coyote
January 21, 2009 12:16 PM
Gene Robinson is clearly a better christian than Rick Warren. He is loving and considerate, avoids being judgmental, and respects the faiths of others.
Your Name
January 21, 2009 6:00 PM
I just wish more people would actually educate themselves on the issues that are brought forth in the Bible. While Leviticus says that homosexuality is wrong it also says not to eat pork or shellfish. I noticed at an early age that the Christians surrounding me simply would pick and chose what to follow. While Paul, Saul of Tarsus also wrote against homosexuality his opinion is not the opinion of Jesus. In fact, he was a persecuter of Christians before miraculously finding the light (or possibly the ability to take away anything factual about the religion by almost single handedly changing the rules).
I'll be interested in the Christian point of view on homosexuality when I find a Christian that lives up to the rest of their holy book. For some reason they pick homosexuality to zero in on. Then again, we see how huge critics of homosexuality like Larry Craig end up :D
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So this man isn't going to say a "Christian" prayer. Why should that come as a surprise?
I find it amazing that this Christian minister equates Jesus Christ to "whatever". I also find it amazing that this man thinks only of the marginalized. In every interview there seems to be an element of victimization. Yes, Christ associated and taught to those on the fringe of society. But He did not accept them because they were on the fringe. He expected that they would learn His lesson and realize that He is the path to salvation...the ONLY path.
Isn't that the essence of being a Christian?
So very lost. The harm that he has caused the Episcopal denomination, now the fastest declining, is stupefying. So many lies from this man
"All I could think of was If I were a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu I would feel so excluded. I would be screaming at the tv set - hey what about me!"
Probably, the same reaction I have when I hear a Hindu or Muslim praying...I quietly and respectively disagree. No shouting at the TV. What a ridiculous notion.
"I've been the reparative therapy route. I did that. My own experience is it doesn't work. I think what it does it that it teaches gay and lesbian people to become so self loathing that they are willing to not act in a natural way, and deprive themselves of the kind of love and support that makes life worthwhile, that makes sense of our own lives and being."
Exodus International, which has recently doubled in size, boasts a "cure" rate of 30-50%. No where near 100% but much higher than substance abuse programs which are in the single digits.
"The church got it wrong about slavery for 18-19 centuries."
Slavery only raised its head for a couple centuries in the past two millenium and it was the church (Wilberforce and the abolitionists) that put it down.
---
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
---
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Thanx to the above 3 posters for the 'blessings', since I know I am blessed when people curse me and revile me and say all manner of evil against me falsely and do it in Christ's name.
And the lies about Exodus's "success" rate only adds to the insanity being spouted about God's gay and lesbian children. Shame on all 3 of you. You speak of "lusts"; Robinson's life, inaugural prayer and testimony are all about love. Sorry you can't tell the difference.
I'm a Lutheran, a commissioned lay minister in my congregation, and a lesbian. I was happy to see Bishop Robinson included in the Inaugural celebrations (and irritated when his pre-Obama-concert prayer was "disappeared" by HBO). I also -- and I say this as someone who's been called to say prayers in groups that include persons of other faiths and nonbelievers -- understand the desire to be as inclusive as possible in a context that seeks to bring all citizens together. But if it were me saying the prayer -- I would have, somehow, acknowledged my own Christian faith even as I sought to gather up all the prayers of all the citizenry in my own...not because I need it or that God needs it, but because of people like the first three respondents to this post, who will use any opportunity to dismiss and disrespect the faith of their sisters and brothers in Christ who happen to be gay or lesbian. As a female Canadian politician, many years ago, noted in her own struggles to be taken seriously by the male-dominated political system, "Sometimes you have to work twice as hard to be thought half as good as a man. Fortunately, this is not difficult." While I know that those of us in the Christian G/L faith community will never be accepted by some of our coreligionists...we also don't need to give our detractors extra ammunition in questioning our Christian faith.
If I would propose a radical modification of an organization, it would be incumbent for me to show that that modification won't bring the demise of the organization.
Mr. Robinson has been an unmitigated disaster for his tiny diocese (attendance down 17%, 6% in the last year alone, and disaster for the denomination, now the fastest declining.
For a church to buy into the "gay is OK" line is to commit ecclesiastical suicide. Look and continental Europe, look at Canada. Yet the lemmings now running the Episcopal denomination press forward over the cliffs. ELCA, Methodists and Presbyterians do you really want to follow them?
May God anoint Bishop Robinson and make him fruitful in all that he does, and may he be an instrument of hope to all the LGBT people who love Jesus but who are told by their churches that they are abominations.
Let us not reject those whom God has declared clean. Amen.
While I know we all tresspass and God's grace is overwhelming I pray that I will never forget to call sin SIN. If I lust, if I have unforgiveness, if I lie, if I trade natural affections for unnatural, PLEASE Holy Spirit keep me malleable enough to ask forgiveness and draw me close enough to you that I determine to press and overcome with Your Strength and repent. Take not Thy Spirit from me.
I hope Pastor Warren stays out of this. He is NOT the "anti-gay" Pastor. He simply support Prop 8 during the last election cycle by emailing his congregation and some other associated Pastors expressing his views (as he should). There are so many more important issues to deal with as evangelical Christians.
We make moral decisions in TEC not because they may help the attendance numbers, but because they are the right thing to do.
+Robinson speaks eloquently about doing the right thing, which is why, eventually, his diocese will "turn around".
Look: if you are tired of intolerance and judgementalism, you may find a home in the Episcopal Church.
This was such a beautiful article, thank you so much.
God bless Gene Robinson and bless those poor, sad people above who have read his kind, loving, open-hearted words and still struggle to find reasons to hate. God bless them the most, they need Gods love the most.
I am sad to see that people criticize me and other posters because we question Robinson's faith. Speaking for myself, I not questioning his faith based on his homosexuality, I question his faith based on the idea that, as a Christian, one is supposed to accept that we are all sinners and that the only way to salvation is through Christ's sacrifice.
This is not "hate speech" and I not see how it can be constued as such.
Gene Robinson is a truly sad and needy sinner. Jesus, who came as the light of the world and brings freedom and life to those who are captive and dead in their sins, has become a marginal, ineffective player within his misguided ministry. I am not gay, but have spent much of my life under the oppression of the indwelling sin of lust. Praise God that I am set free. This freedom is available to all sinners. You too can be free! Allow the light of the Gospel to illuminate your dark world.
Gene Robinson is clearly a better christian than Rick Warren. He is loving and considerate, avoids being judgmental, and respects the faiths of others.
I just wish more people would actually educate themselves on the issues that are brought forth in the Bible. While Leviticus says that homosexuality is wrong it also says not to eat pork or shellfish. I noticed at an early age that the Christians surrounding me simply would pick and chose what to follow. While Paul, Saul of Tarsus also wrote against homosexuality his opinion is not the opinion of Jesus. In fact, he was a persecuter of Christians before miraculously finding the light (or possibly the ability to take away anything factual about the religion by almost single handedly changing the rules).
I'll be interested in the Christian point of view on homosexuality when I find a Christian that lives up to the rest of their holy book. For some reason they pick homosexuality to zero in on. Then again, we see how huge critics of homosexuality like Larry Craig end up :D
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.