Thank you for posting this. It’s important to hear the destructive messages that many young LGBT people hear in church. Equally important is to realize that hearing nothing about sexuality, sexual orientation and gender identity — as though these issues did not exist, or were not worthy of faithful attention — is also harmful. I am hopeful at the trends indicating that, for young Americans, sexual orientation is a non-issue. May they lead the way on gender identity as well.

Tim Palmer,
Amen to that.
I fear, tho’, now that medicine and science have conclusively shown that we are neither sick nor in any way defective, merely genetically useful variants in sexuality, the attacks from the Christian right will become nastier and more hateful than before. Not having any basis to argue, all that is left is hate.
It shames me that so many of us gays and lesbians, otherwise tolerant, even of bisexuals, refuse to give more support to the transgendered.
Can you imagine what it must be like to be a woman ‘stuck’ in a man’s body or vice-versa? They will be the very last to receive mercy from the conservative Christians and our own lack of support (see the hate-crimes debate in 2007) should show us that we can be just as uncharitable and unChristian towards others as the nastiest posters here.
And that is saying something.

So glad to see that Beliefnet is encouraging this conversation! Here are some other links that people might want to check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBR0dq0XXk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBR0dq0XXk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Lpc4s5Yk0

Not sure how much more “public” we can be, Steve. Metropolitan Community Churches have been around for 41 years now. It even pre-dates the Stonewall Riots, something that went entirely un-remarked upon by most media last year, (its 40th anniversary) – even in the gay media.
And of course, there’s also the mitigating factor that gay American citizens can still be fired from (or not hired for) their jobs in 37 states. There’s still a very grave danger/threat to gay Americans who are out. We are still physically attacked, as well as spiritually attacked right here on B’net (specifically, but not limited to, the Crunchy Con blog).
But you are right – the more out we are, the more we will be accepted because to knnow us is to love us. We ARE your sons and daughters, your next door neighbors, your co-workers. And it is only when people don’t know or understand that, that they can continue with ignorant beliefs.
Thanks for your support.
P.S. I hope that by now you’ve checked that older thread where there was a misunderstanding. I had blamed the “radical religious right” for the anti-gay hatred and you somehow surmised I meant you, which was definitely not the case. You left the very next day on vacation, so you may have missed my clearing that up.

What you need to ask yourself is “why is there such a focus on gays?” Demonizing gay people is much more about money, power and politics than scripture.
BTW, Tony Perkins’ worst nightmare is this kid:
http://www.tips-q.com/content/video-gay-teens-emotional-testimony-vermont-over-same-sex-marriage32109

It’s about time that BeliefNet featured something on their front page about GLBT spirituality and GLBT Christians. Now Steven how about an interview placed front and center on your home page with the Rev. Dr. Mel White of SOULFORCE like you did with Rick Warren. You do know who Mel White is, don’t ya? If not check out http://www.soulforce.org.
SOULFORCE is a GLBT advocacy group based on the non-violent philosophy of Ghandi and Martin Luther King to expose bigotry, homophobia and injustice in the church at large. How about a few features on BeliefNet about its ministry? BTW you can get lots of free downloadable resources at the SOULFORCE website.
You need some balance, frankly, as far as this gay member of beliefnet is concerned.
My Beliefnet profile page is here: http://community.beliefnet.com/rob_the_rev/?&message=WW91IGhhdmUgc3VjY2Vzc2Z1bGx5IGRlbGV0ZWQgdGhhdCBjb21tZW50Lg==

My 21 year old son and all of his straight friends simply do not understand why anyone would care about anyone’s sexual orientation other than their own. This is such a positive trend.
Things are still dire for many gay people right now, but I have tremendous hope that within less than a decade, many of these oppressive laws will be struck down.

Actually, with the exception of Rod Dryer’s blog, Beliefnet is pretty fair on human rights.
It’s the many hateful, spiteful contributors who make up most of the nastiness around here.
Rod is way off base on homosexuality, but – even tho’ I disagree with him utterly – I don’t see him making the comments about us being pedophiles, worse than those who commit incest, etc. which we so routinely encounter here – not just at his blog. He permits them, tho’ as well as letting loving people voice their opinions, too.
When I read that people would actually dissolve my marriage if they could, I realize that there are some here who are so invested in their hatred, nothing can reach them.
It’s a good suggestion and I will follow it up with one of my own – why not invite Gay Christian Network to blog here? Nope, no affiliation to them other than being a regular forum member.
I guess this is as good a place as any to say thanks to Steven for being open to discussing our place in the Christian world. The hatred we see so often here is a genuine reflection of American Christianity today.
Sadly.

Or, how about having the Rev. Elder Nancy Wilson, Moderator of the Metropolitan Community Churches blog here.
It really would be nice to see some balance.

My partner and I are loved and accepted at our church, where I am a commissioned lay minister and my partner is an active layperson; and this is a little church next to a hayfield in the far corner of a rural county in outstate Michigan. We do not make a point of our sexual orientation; we’re just another couple in our congregation. I realize that I am very fortunate to be able to serve and worship in this supportive community, in the faith tradition in which I was raised and where I am most comfortable, and my heart goes out to readers who haven’t been welcomed in their own faith communities. My advice to them is to seek out open and inclusive churches in their area even if they have to jump the fence into a new denomination…and take heart that “Friday’s here, but Sunday’s coming.”

OOPS!

P.S. I have searached and there is no “report a problem” link at left anywhere as stated in your Complaints procedures.

==P.S. I have searached and there is no “report a problem” link at left anywhere as stated in your Complaints procedures.==
It’s funny that YOU people are the only ones complaining, and it’s not because of a violation of the rules, rather just cuz you don’t like the content. Nobody in any message board guarantees that you will like the content of posts. That’s the nature of debate. You don’t have to like the content of the posts. This is not a cumbaya session, and you’re going to get your feathers ruffled, just as I have, and you don’t see me complaining. Looks as though I have a thicker skin than you people.

==My 21 year old son and all of his straight friends simply do not understand why anyone would care about anyone’s sexual orientation other than their own. ==
Of course they don’t. We know that already, and it’s cuz don’t have the appropriate grounding in Morality. They adopt the “morality” of each other, and that’s what kids do when they get in groups.

Notice how these people never confront the opposition, rather make every effort to waste their time trying to eliminate the opposition. Not only that, cuz they have no power in themselves and have run out of substance, they have to run to somebody who carries the stick to do their fighting for them.

panthera:
Speaking of Dreher, did you notice the two posts he had in the “gay rights” section earlier this week in which for 2 days he assured us that no, sir, he is not obsessed with homosexuality, thank you very much?
And you’re absolutely right about transgendered people. I know a few, and it diminishes my hopes for humanity when I see what they go through on a regular basis.
elizabeth:
“My 21 year old son and all of his straight friends simply do not understand why anyone would care about anyone’s sexual orientation other than their own. This is such a positive trend.”
Indeed. I’m not holding out too much hope for my generation (mid twenties), but I do hope your son and his friends are part of a larger trend. And unlike some, I don’t see it as poor parenting. In fact, I wish my parents had encouraged me to believe in equality regardless of sexuality or gender identity.

Mordred08,
One positive note, I have lived in Europe for many decades now – I’m in my fifties – and, except for the local Catholic priest, everyone in town was happy to see the day a few years back when my husband and I, after living together for nearly 20 years, were able to tie the knot.
We had a party in town, like everybody else does around here and more or less everyone came or at least didn’t throw a hissy fit. Oh, sure, a few of the really super conservative Catholics were upset, but from the German border with Poland west, the era of defining your love of God through hatred of homosexuals is long past. Now, Poland going east, yes things are still bad for us, women, transgendered and peole like Erin Manning, one out of place to be speaking, and two, too far to the left.
Now that the hateful, spiteful christianists who ran the Bush #43 administration are being shown up for what they were, people will begin to be more open. It is always that way after an especially bad presidency (I, sadly, can remember a few, tho’ nothing like shrub has ever happened before).
Your generation is far more capable of love than you might think. Even my ancient generation has turned around in the US over the last years. The more people get to know us and see the difference between our perfectly normal lives and the absurd lies thrown about by christianists who have made us their flavor of the decade, the more Christians of all ages are willing to support us. My ‘homosexual lifestyle’ reads nothing like a two line add from the Village Voice ano 1977 and very much like a book from Erma Bombeck.
The christianists love to focus on that small group of men who do party, party, party. Heterosexual men all being different…all those single moms must have gotten into their predicaments by themselves, since straight men only want one sex partner their whole lives…
I teach young men and women. Near as I can tell, their is no difference between the straights and the gays in their sexual morals at age 20. This nonsense about how heterosexual men are all just sitting there in their dorm rooms waiting for Ms. Right to come along while the gays are all out shaking their groove thang is preposterous. Puh-lease, what planet are these conservative Christians from and how is the weather there?
Certainly, there is a polarization here in the US, but it is far less strong than the conservatives on blogs like this would like for you to believe. Most folks have had it with the culture wars, especially my generation. Folks in the US my age just got handed their pink slip, their retirement plans just went from millions to peanuts, their unemployed kids with their grandkids just moved back in and nobody has health insurance, but $2,000 college loans to pay back every month…
Rod is certainly in an interesting situation. I think a large part of the discussion is caused because he moves in the same intellectual circles as some of the most serious on-line thinkers, and with good reason. Newsflash to the christianists around here: He covers it well, but Rod is a gen-u-whine intellectual and respected journalist. He is not one of you unwashed hoi-poloi, nor is he all hat and no cattle. There is a reason Gerard Nadal and Susan, MargaretE and such true thinkers put up with the, er, others at his site. Rod is the real thing. That is, I suspect why Tony Jones wanted to debate him – Tony does not suffer idiots well.
In that world, a certain respect for the truth is expected and Rod, who on so many other serious topics have proved his abilities, has failed to show any just cause for his special problem with homosexuality and granting us human rights. Just the opposite, he states that he knows he is on the losing side of history, expresses genuine outrage at those who physically attack us…but has yet to present a cogent case as to why this particular issue requires Christians to ignore science, medicine and God’s call to love.
The fact that he is open to discussion with me privately shows a willingness to engage and be engaged which is brave. (Tho’ not on his blog, and I have to allow his point, I do use my brains, classical education and knowledge of the Bible to shred my oppressors whenever I can. How does that saying go? If cats ruled the world, what an elegant, sophisticated place it would be. And, oh, how merciless. Suits me just fine. How dare anyone wish my marriage dissolved!)
He’s backed himself into a corner, I have no idea why. On abortion, there are other intellectuals and people of good will who disagree. On this issue, he pretty much only has, well, we won’t name names…
Personally, I had to make a choice many years ago: Build a life with the man I love or go back to the US without him. Chose us. Was the best decision of my life.
I fail to understand how some Christians can see evil in a committed, faithful, monogamous loving relationship between two people. There is no logic to trying to prevent those two people from securing their human rights to support each other and to fulfill their responsibilities to each other.
The conservatives, what is left of the Republicans and ultra-far-right Christians have yet to acknowledge that homosexuality does not separate us from God, that we are Christians. Their arguments become shriller and more and more absurd with each passing month.
After all, every single country which has granted us human rights has only profited thereby. Americans are too insular. It is a grave mistake.

==… my husband and I…==
So, YOU are the wife?

So much ignorance, so little time…
No, Mr. Not Credible, we’re both husbands. Get used to it, then get over it.
You’ve lost.

==…we’re both husbands.==
However, the Word of God says that “marriage,” in the Godly sense, is the union of a man, as husband, and a woman, as his wife.
Where does the Word of God say that the union of a man and a man is Godly?? Give us the line of scriptural thought on this.
==Get used to it…==
I’ll never get used to it cuz God won’t get used to it.
==… then get over it.==
I’ll never get over it cuz God won’t get over it.
So, it looks as though will have years and years and years and years and years and years and years of litigation and legislation and votes, and, in the meantime, such an abomination of what YOU people call “gay marriage” will never be settled in favor of YOU people.

“what YOU people call “gay marriage” will never be settled in favor of YOU people”
Um, it already is. You seem to forget Massachusetts, Connecticut, and (temporarily on hold), California and Iowa.
You seem to forget the 7 countries where, ahem, WE people can already get legally married.
You seem to forget the other countries and U.S. states where we can get ‘civilly’ united.
You seem to forget the U.S. states that recognize our legal marriages even if those states themselves don’t yet perform them.
“never be settled”??? Laff.
(P.S. What your “god” says, believes accepts, etc. is pretty much irrelevant in a country that promises freedom of religion, because other people’s religions, or gods – or lack thereof – differs from yours. Get used to it, then get oveer it. I’m sure the “god” of YOU people is big enough, considering that “god” supposedly created ALL things, including US people.)

==”what YOU people call “gay marriage” will never be settled in favor of YOU people”
Um, it already is. You seem to forget Massachusetts, Connecticut, and (temporarily on hold), California and Iowa.==
So what? Just about every other state turns it down.
Anyway, a man who claim to be homosexual may marry a woman who claim to be homosexual. Heterosexuality in individuals is not a requirement for marriage.
==You seem to forget the 7 countries where, ahem, WE people can already get legally married.==
I don’t care about those other countries.
==You seem to forget the other countries and U.S. states where we can get ‘civilly’ united.==
But not married.
==You seem to forget the U.S. states that recognize our legal marriages even if those states themselves don’t yet perform them.==
I can’t help but they’re ignorant.
==”never be settled”???==
It isn’t, and won’t be. It’s still up in the air.
==(P.S. What your “god” says, believes accepts, etc. is pretty much irrelevant…==
Really? You think He doesn’t notice?
== Get used to it…==
I won’t get used to it because God never gets used to it.
==… then get oveer it.==
I won’t get over it because God never gets over it.
== I’m sure the “god” of YOU people is big enough, considering that “god” supposedly created ALL things, including US people.)==
However, God didn’t create you people homosexual. You did that, yourselves, through your choice.