That Report on Right Wing Extremism -- Still a Fantasy? (Holocaust Museum Shooting)

The problem isn't that DHS issued the report, it is how wide their "net" of folks that should be watched is. There are always going to be extremeists on both sides...and they will violate the law in a way they think is justified, however, this does not mean we need more laws and other regulations that only impact the law abiding. As this incident clearly shows, the criminals are not deterred from their crime "just because" it is illegal - i.e. having a loaded long gun and taking it into a federal building is illegal, but the LAW did not stop the crime! I am just waiting for a call for yet more gun control in the city with some of the most stringent gun control laws in the country. What I do not understand is how anti-guns folks think that these laws actually stop crime...they only stop law-abiding citizens!

They're showing live coverage of it all online (streaming video) over at http://vostuu.com/watch28015.html for free

We have a notorious White Power leader in our community. He's an evil individual who's threatened people I know, and frankly I'm afraid that one day he and his wingnut neo-Nazi followers will act out violently -- including at my church. I can only hope that the FBI is monitoring his person and his "church."

I see the Republicans have not allowed the horror of this event to stop them from parroting their talking point of the day. In the last thirty minutes, I have seen Frances Townsend and Rep. Mike Rogers both bring up "environmental extremists" when asked about terrorism, although (1) no one brought up environmentalism - they injected it out of the blue; (2) this had nothing to do with environmentalists at all; and (3) the very few environmental extremists there are just target property, not people. (True, this doesn't excuse torching houses or Hummers, and people can be harmed unintentionally in the violence against property, but the von Brunn's and Scott Roeder's of the world are one hell of a lot more dangerous.

We can expect that more and more of these hate-mongers are going to come out of the woodwork as we heal our nation. When they cross the line, they should receive the same treatment as this one did. They only know violence and that's all they will ever respond to. But if the would-be supremacists of the world see that they will be shown no more mercy and consideration as they would show to other, maybe they will stay under their rocks. These people are terrorists and no better than the Taliban or al Qaeda. So let's treat them like terrorists.

I have to agree with Steve. It is true there are right-wing extremists who will circumvent existing laws and the rights of others. Part of the problem is how "right-wing" is defined or how "extremist" is defined. To some the terms "conservative," "republican" and "right-wing" are synomonous. Not all "right-wingers" who believe in upholding the Second Amendment are "extremist." Statistics confirm what Steve and others claim, that more stringent gun control negatively affects only law-abiding citizens. Those who ar intent on doing harm to others will find ways of obtaining their weapons of choice.

Additionally, it very interesting that there is an uproar over "right-wing extremists", but one hardly ever hears about the "left-wing extremists" (of which statistical research shows there are more than right-wing extremists).

Is also interesting to note that DHS classifies both Judaism and Christianity as "extremist groups" and "threats to national security." (How do I know? I work for DHS) Yet, the vast majority of both faiths embrace and strive to obey the moral law embodied in the Eecalogue (the Ten Commandments), which includes a prohibition against murder.

And good thing the shooter wasn't a radical 60's peace-monger such as Bill Ayers, we would never hear about it.

A scene from Superman II fits this situation just right about terrorists:

Clark Kent: Right!
[is about to leave but stops]
Clark Kent: Uh, sorry. T... terrorists?
Perry White: Get your head out of the closet, Kent! Where've you been for the past twelve hours?
Clark Kent: Home.
Perry White: Well, don't you watch television?
Clark Kent: Frankly, Mr. White, I really don't enjoy television. Too much violence. I was just reading Dickens.
Jimmy Olsen: [races in] Mr. Kent! A gang of terrorists seized the Eiffel Tower! In Paris!
Perry White: He knows where the Eiffel Tower is, Olson!
[afterthought]
Perry White: You do, don't you Kent?
Clark Kent: Yes, sir.
[to Jimmy]
Clark Kent: Has anybody been hurt?
Jimmy Olsen: Well, so far the hostages are unharmed.
Clark Kent: The hostages?
Jimmy Olsen: Yeah! Tourists! About twenty of them!
Perry White: Yeah, but that's just petty stuff. These guys claim that if the French government doesn't meet their demands, they've got a hydrogen bomb ready to level Paris.
Clark Kent: Well, geez Mr. White. That's t... terrible!
Perry White: That's why they call them "terrorists," Kent.

Your Name: "Additionally, it very interesting that there is an uproar over "right-wing extremists", but one hardly ever hears about the "left-wing extremists" (of which statistical research shows there are more than right-wing extremists)."

You know, if you would pull your head out of your a$$ you might not sound so stupid.

wikileaks.org/wiki/DHS:_Ecoterrorism:_Environmental_and_Animal-Rights_Militants_in_the_United_States,_7_May_2008

wikileaks.org/wiki/DHS:_Plans_to_Target_Transportation_Infrastructure_Surrounding_Republican_National_Convention,_27_Mar_2008

theplumline.whorunsgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/hsa-leftwing-extremists-increase-in-cyber-attacks-dated-26-january-2009.pdf

With folks like you on their side it's a wonder the right wingers even know which end of the gun goes boom.

Always remember, the head is not an anal hygiene tool, repeated demonstrations have found.

I am more concerned about this incident being used as an excuse for forcing senate bill 909( So called "hate bill") through congress without a debate on the floor. this bill could be interpreted to restrict free speech or even common sense disagreement with zionist lobbyists. In other words, like Minority Report , in an Orwellian future, speech could be interpreted as "hate". It might create a special class of people that would be above the law or investigation.I am not too worried about right-wing hate groups because it is well known that they are over 50% infiltrated by the FBI,ADL and other Agencies. Only a retard, would join one. My concern is ; why has virtually nothing been done to curb the growth of violent gangs? There are over 500,000 of them in LA alone . The federal and state governments have completely failed to protect us. Yet one nut case gets total media attention because the words "White supremacist", "Nazi" and "hate Crime" are used to trigger people. Why? The hate (anti-1st amendment anti-free speech bill) has been defeated twice already and has been stalled for the last few months.

r. wainwright,

Always impressive to see a moderate Nazi posting online. Usually, Nazis are always screaming and ranting to promote their hatred. You, on the other hand, appear to be very calm and collected to try to make your hatred more palpable, I dare say?

Let's try to guess what you mean by your unsaid implications, shall we? Oh, I'll take a few random chances:

1) You think everyone is tired of hearing about the Holocaust. You probably really don't think it actually happened anyway, and if it did you really couldn't care less.

2) You like to have more "debate" and "inquiry" because you think the Holocaust is basically made up. Again, you are probably loathe to admit any of it - maybe you think a few thousand died and "that's about all".

3) You mention "war crimes" perpetrated by the Allies. I assume you mean more than Dresden, although that has probably been one of your biggest rallying cries for you and your buddies since a while. No, you want to "expose" more. My guess is that you think more declassified documents "prove" some sort of "Jewish cabal" which started a war against Hitler, or some such nonsense? They were fabricated, you say? "Must have been the Jews", I hear you thinking out loud.

So nice of you to try playing the reasonability game, little Nazi. Perhaps you'll have better luck next time.

And there they are - Amber and r.wainwright. Defending the indefensible.

Amber, at the time your comment was posted, we already knew this man's political affiliations, his previous terrorist undertakings, his publications, and public statements.

Nobody was in doubt at the time of your posting which side of the political aisle he came from.

He was not shy about his purpose, and he made great use of modern technology to inform the world of his intent.

You simply don't want to accept it. A game you've played here before.

It works when the subject is the number of angels dancing on head's of pins. It doesn't when we have the footage of the guard being murdered in cold blood, preventing even worse.

r.wainright,

I have spoken to many Germans and Dutch who were alive during the era of 1933-1945. Many of them were and still are very much aligned with the general policies of the National Socialists. None of them, not one, denies the truth about the death camps. None of them denies the genocide committed upon the Jews. The imposed wearing of pink and yellow stars. The denunciations and subsequent summary executions of homosexuals. I personally knew a woman who was incarcerated in Dachau because of her deeply-felt Christian beliefs.

No one denies that the UK and the US let the NAZIs gain power in Germany because of a deeply held antisemitism. No one denies that the reparations demanded of Germany after WWI created an ideal breeding ground for the political extremest parties - Germany could just as easily have swung to the communists.

This has nothing to do with the fact, proved, documented, recorded that over six million Jews were murdered by the Nazis. At least 10 million people were put to death directly because of their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or Christian beliefs. Because they suffered mental or physical impairments. Because their parents were not willing to cooperate and thus "examples" were needed.

If your motivations are those of a racial supremacist, by all means be open and honest about it. We have enough hateful people here pretending that denying gays the right to marriage is done out of "love". Instead of false witness, tell the truth.

Better yet, get thee over to crunchycon. Rod Dreher welcomes racists and white supremacists with open arms on his blog.

A nut is a nut and has every right to be a nut, but when you refuse to label a nut as such instead identifing them as victims, patriots, etc. you lose credibility whemn they do something nutty.