The Freedom To Violently Attack Gays
Monday June 15, 2009
Coral Ridge Ministries is working hard to defeat the "Hate Crimes" legislation being considered in Congress. A recent email declared: "If we don't stop it now, it will become law, and that will mean a loss of liberty for Christians...
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Good points there, Mr. Waldman. A lot of conservatives fear that speech calling homosexuality will be criminalized by a hate crimes law, but the following quote contradicts those fears:
" (3) CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS- Nothing in this Act shall be construed to prohibit any constitutionally protected speech, expressive conduct or activities (regardless of whether compelled by, or central to, a system of religious belief), including the exercise of religion protected by the First Amendment and peaceful picketing or demonstration. The Constitution does not protect speech, conduct or activities consisting of planning for, conspiring to commit, or committing an act of violence.
" (4) FREE EXPRESSION- Nothing in this Act shall be construed to allow prosecution based solely upon an individual's expression of racial, religious, political, or other beliefs or solely upon an individual's membership in a group advocating or espousing such beliefs."
Steven Waldman wrote:
Is this really what religious conservatives want to be focused on: blocking a law that prevents violence on the basis of sexual orientation?
endquote
Yes, Steven. That is precisely what they want. They truly hate gays and transgender people. The fact that nearly 1500 gays and transgender are murdered, severely beaten, raped, tortured and burned to death in the US every single year (and more every year) is a clear verification of the horrible truth.
The conservative Christians really do want to hurt us physically.
We really are under physical, direct attack from them.
I've mentioned my husband and me having been attacked here before, I won't go into the details again. The attacks were in the name of Christ - for conservative Christians, it is open season upon us.
There is a deep irony in the fact that I have never been attacked except by other Christians. Never been so insulted as by my fellow Christians, those who maintain that I can't be gay and a Christian. Those who tell me they would dissolve my marriage if they could.
Transgender and gays are the targets of hatred for the conservative Christians now. The more our rights to full human status are respected on the legal level, the more violence you will see.
But, heh! It's all in the name of Christ, so it can only be about the righteous passing their judgment by loving the sinner and hating the sin, right? Beat my teeth in, crush my husband's ribs and, well, that's practically a sacrament.
Panthera, my sympathies for what you've been through. But you do understand that the violence against ultimately has little to do with religion and a lot to do with predictable personal issues. After all, God couldn't smite you with Her own lightning bolt if She despised you as Her creation? Christians who attack gays don't really believe in any power of God.
Fear and hatred in the name of Jesus, does it get any better?
Panthera, I’m so very sorry to hear about the violent confrontation.
As a gay man, I also wonder about such things as well but I’m also one who would turn and fight too. My experience with conservative Christians is not good and I have no love or respect for them. I also left Christianity many years ago and became Wiccan so in some ways, I’m a special case for them.
As the legislation already states, their hate speech, in the name of their god, is protected so they should be fine.
The conservative Christians use that religion as an excuse for hurting/killing homosexuals. IMO they are as hateful as the white supremacists, who not only have it in for homosexuals but Jews, Blacks, Muslims, Mexicans, or anyone who isn't a WASP.
Hope the law passes, but also the "Christians" realize that their hate talk "inspires" the violence against homosexuals.
I linked this blog post to my Facebook. I'd hope others do the same, and educate their friends about the hateful behavior of Coral Ridge Ministries (the brainchild of a hateful individual, the late Dominionist leader D. James Kennedy).
Well Mr. Waldman, the Bible does say gays "shall surely be put to death".
It isn't a great leap to realize that "Bible-believin' Christians" (TM) want, not only to enshrine that into law, but also to act as agents of the State to make sure it happens. The Bible told them so, etc.
As a liberal Christian it infuriates me that so many conservative believers seem to relish hating gays. I often wonder if these people really have a clue as to what Jesus was really all about. Can anyone seriously imagine Jesus approving attacks on gays & lesbians? No way!
Frankly when so-called Christians act like bigoted jerks it makes me embarrassed to say I am a Christian. They need to be more loving and less self-righteous.
Robert,
Thank you - yes, actually, I do understand that. After the court (Bless you Judge Hamish) forced the hospital to recognize that yes, even Catholic hospitals have to permit gays when equipped with medical powers of attorney to visit their husband's bedsides, I had three wonderful days' time in intensive by his side to think it through.
That doesn't change the fact that these unstable personalities are being actively encouraged and rewarded for their behavior. By the conservative Christians. One need only go back to the torture debates we had here a few weeks ago or look at all the hatred and justifications for murdering Dr. Tiller you'll find over at crunchycon.
Which is busy, today, calling Japanese men wusses because, apparently, they sit down to pee?
I'm old enough to remember the lessons of hatred preached by the conservative Christians in the 1960's, when interracial marriage was their flavor-of-the-week. Same thing - they instigate the violence and are just as responsible for it as those who actually commit the act.
In 'entertainment' 'news' today ...
"Sacha Baron Cohen was threatened by gun-wielding American hunters while filming [his newest film] Bruno.
[While] in character as the gay Austrian fashion reporter, [he] began dancing naked around the trio's campsite and, after realizing Bruno was 'gay', the men started loading their guns...in front of the cameras.
After initially trying to reason with the men, Sacha and the cameramen fled in fear of their lives."
'America' seems to believe they have the right to hunt/threaten gay people. It is in your blood, so to speak.
Pace Matt Shephard.
Yet more (anti-)gay 'news' ...
[A] lesbian was barred from visiting her partner and giving advice about her treatment at a Fresno hospital ...
From aitch aitch aitch colon//dub dub dub dot365gay.com/news/fresno-hospital-bars-lesbian-from-visiting-partner/
(An excerpt): "because Kristin suffers from epilepsy, trips to the hospital are pretty common for us, which is why we filled out the legal paper work to make sure I would be able to be with her and make
emergency decisions about her care. But the hospital wouldn’t let me see Kristen and ignored my advice about her treatment. They ended up giving her the exact medication I repeatedly asked them not to give her.”
"Rowe repeatedly asked hospital employees to allow her to see Orbin and talk to a physician about her care but was refused. She volunteered to have Orbin’s legal paperwork naming Rowe as her health care agent faxed to the hospital but was told that it wouldn’t do any good."
"“As these events so painfully demonstrate, no matter what hoops same-sex couples jump through to
protect their relationships, these kinds of horrible things will continue to happen as long as couples are denied the recognition and respect that only comes with marriage.”" [said an ACLU spokesperson].
You people hate us. You really, really hate us. You are cruel, uncharitable and entirely UN-Christian.
I'm fed up and will no longer mince my words. You are the ones that are sick. Get help. And a little humanity while you're at it.
Sadly, Husband, you've got it.
Thrice now, the conservative Christians have overlooked legal documents by which they were compelled to provide us access to each other.
Each time, the courts forced them to comply - but they know that time is of the essence and when they can just keep you away from your partner long enough, they hope that your partner will then die alone and abandoned by his or her loved one.
Or, in our case - they ignore your husband and let people whom you have explicitly excluded from any right to make decisions for you make the decisions.
The conservative Christians are hate-filled monsters who will stop at nothing to hurt us.
Typical behavior from he Coral Ridge Ministries abusing the name of the Lord for their own twisted reasons not the least of which is financial.
OK, first off, as a christian, this is what I have been taught: God hates the sin, not the sinner. So I will do the same. And yes, in the Bible, it does say that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination. Do you know how many things are considered a sin in the bible? I think we would all be amazed at how often we all sin! I am not one to go for the cafeteria-style Christianity that even many so-called conservative christians seem to practice regularly. I sin in different ways every day. I try to be aware of it and minimize it. That really is all we can do. There are no greater or lesser sins. Sin is sin. It is simply a thought or action in which we go away from God or away from His commandments.
Second, I am against any kind of hate-crime legislation. My reasoning for this is three-fold:
1. There are already laws on the books that cover all of these crimes. These laws should be enforced to the fullest.
2. I do not believe in laws that are specifically targeted to any group or individual, no matter the purpose. The law should be applied equally to all human beings, otherwise it is not an effective law and should be thrown out. The death penalty is a perfect example of this. It has never been applied equally and is not currently. It should be abolished until such time that it is. Then the debate over it's use should begin anew.
3. Hate-crime legislation involves punishing individuals for their purported thoughts. There is no way to prove the existence of a thought. There is no way to prove the content or intent of a thought. I have always held freedom of thought above of all other rights, it is essential and fundamental to all other human rights. Deeds are all we should be punished or rewarded for. They are concrete and can be evidenced either physically or by witnesses.
Thank you Dean Myrick - at last a voice of reason!
"Rowe repeatedly asked hospital employees to allow her to see Orbin and talk to a physician about her care but was refused. She volunteered to have Orbin’s legal paperwork naming Rowe as her health care agent faxed to the hospital but was told that it wouldn’t do any good."
It's real simple. Walk into the hospital, paperwork in hand, lawyer on speed-dial and tell them that you are in charge of your partners care!! Document everything! Hell, I'd even try to get a TV crew to come with you the first time! It's sad that you have to do this, but it may be required to assert your legal rights. Let them know that anyone who does not listen to you will be seeing you in court!
Dean Myrick,
Speaking as a fellow Christian, I am relieved to hear that you consider all sins (except denying God) to be of equal weight. Anything which separates us from God is a sin. The punishment is our separation from His love.
I do not, however, believe that God condemns my love, my faithful, true monogamous relationship of over 24 years - four of them married.
You are right that all people should be treated fairly. The reason for hate-crimes legislation is simply this: Many localities (Texas being a prime example) have not pursued the murderers, torturers, rapists and beaters of gays and transgender people as they are required under existing laws to do.
This law makes it possible to apply the same pressure to law enforcement in these hateful backwaters as Ronald Reagan did many years ago when all those poor Negro childrend were being murdered in the South and nobody could be bothered - he flew down, camped out in the capitol and plain flat said: "Either you will treat Negroes as fully entitled humans and American citizens under the law or I will have the Feds. solve the problem for you."
Historical fact.
By the by, if you read the law, you will see that hateful christianists are still permitted to spew their venom from their pulpits. Thoughts are and remain free - the first amendment guarantees that. Again, read the law, ignore the christianists commiting false witness.
Dean,
Sorry, but I do not see yours as a "voice of reason", but as one of 'religious' hypocrisy.
" And yes, in the Bible, it does say that homosexuality is a sin"
Many Biblical scholars disagree with that blanket statement. Homosexuality, both as we know it today and in today's terms of reference, is rarely even addressed in The Bible. The "sins" you refer to are usually the sins of homosexual lust, homosexual rape, and homosexual temple/cult prostitution. I have no problems with any of those, especially the part about not lieing with mankind as you lie with womenkind. This clearly refers to nominally heterosexual men having a bit on the side (since homosexual men don't lie with womenkind - in any fashion). It is widely known today as 'being on the down low'. It is not what we are discussing, but I agree, ignoring one's true orientation is kinda sinful. The Bible in no way ever condemns David's love for Jonathan ("surpassing the love of women"), and it is far closer to the gay relationships we are discussing here.
"and an abomination"
As is eating lobster and shrimp. Big whup.
" I am not one to go for the cafeteria-style Christianity "
Oh, I strongly suspect that you do, Dean. Or do you actually think gays "shall surely be put to death"? 'Cuz if you do, that scares me far worse than any fundaliteralist. Do you likewise believe disobedient children should be put to death? Should the victims of incest be put to death? Should we deny communion to the disabled? Do you eat shrimp?
I already rebutted your anti-hate crimes screed on a separate thread dealing with just that and so won't bother to repeat it here.
"It's real simple. Walk into the hospital, paperwork in hand, lawyer on speed-dial and tell them that you are in charge of your partners care!! Document everything! Hell, I'd even try to get a TV crew to come with you the first time! It's sad that you have to do this, but it may be required to assert your legal rights. Let them know that anyone who does not listen to you will be seeing you in court!"
Lawyers are expensive, Dean. Plus, as is already too often the case, fundie hopsital workers can still just say "NO!" to us. Marriage would cover all of your scenarios. If married, we wouldn't have to go through all of that bother and legal threatening. As I've often said, treat us equally and the issue goes away.
Dean Myrick,
Sometimes I feel like we're all stuck in a holding pattern here, repeating the same conversations again and again.
Your assumption that going to a lawyer and getting the medical power of attorney written up will be enough to persuade fundamentalist Christians to grant you access to your loved one is, very sadly, false.
Three times in the last five years, we have found to our horror that this just isn't the case.
The first time, my parents had been in a horrible accident, it looked for the longest time as if my dad would need a kidney transplant...and my brother told the hospital I was gay. This Catholic teaching hospital wouldn't even consider me "because all homosexuals have Aids". Yup, yup those were the words of the administrator who had me physically thrown out of the hospital.
By the time I had a court order (guess who has the power of attorney for my parents when they are mutually incapacitated. Hint: Not the fundamentalist Christian, but the gay, married Christian) and proof that I am HIV-, it would have been too late if not my father had recovered.
Second time, I was beaten by my dear Christian relations (can you say red-nex? Sure you can.) My husband was denied access to me. So my parents, still recovering from their injuries and both in their late 70's were required to make decisions....Again, a court ruled quite quickly and thanks to the local sheriff, my husband was given access to me. But the intention of the hospital was to have me die alone without him.
Third time, I mentioned already this week.
Now, you've had all sorts of examples here on beliefnet over the last months of gay and lesbian and transgender people who had legal documents but were still denied to see their loved ones, still denied to make the decisions for which they had been appointed by their loved ones.
The simple truth is, until we have clear guidelines (i.e.: Secular Marriage) this won't stop.
Look, you don't want to consider our marriages (or us) Christian, fine. Just, please, stop discriminating against us on the secular level.
But what of Obama? Many news outlets, such as MarriageNewsNow dot com, are reporting that Obama himself is not on board with the homosexual lobby. They ask: Is Obama waging war on gays?
I think you have missed the point of Coral Ridge's retoric. They have found that Gay fear mongering brings in more MONEY than anything else. They would claim that GLBT's represent only 1-2% of the population. Adulters represent many times more and break up vastly more families but that does not bring in the MONEY.
Mary,
Please stop with your pathetic attempts to try to drive hits to the false witness borne consistently on your anti-marriage-EQUALITY site. It's an abhorrent collection of lies.
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