In all seriousness, I suspect this is because the majority of conservative Christians are either illiterate or incapable of the independent thought necessary to actually read the legislation.
They are content to let their leaders tell them what and how to think.
Of course, this has also become a wedge issue, a last line-in-the-sand for the conservative Christians.
If we homosexuals and transgender are granted full human status, they will have lost pretty much all their objects of hatred.
All that remained would be working harder on themselves to fulfill God’s requirements upon us to be charitable and loving.
That’s hard work. Attacking my marriage is easy.

It’s the difference between being self righteous and truly righteous.

Panthera,
“All that remained would be working harder on themselves to fulfill God’s requirements upon us to be charitable and loving.”
Since you referred to us as illiterate, and insinuated we mindlessly follow our “leaders”, it seems like you might wanna work on being a little more charitable yourself.
“If we homosexuals and transgender are granted full human status, they will have lost pretty much all their objects of hatred.”
I may disagree with gay marriage, but I still see homosexuals and transgenders as humans. Also, I don’t hate anyone, let alone you or anyone else for being gay. So please, let’s not lump me in with the lunatic fringe. The gay community doesn’t like being painted with broad strokes of bigotry, and neither does the conservative community or the Christian community.
I’m happy to exercise tolerance in a pluralistic society, but I expect the same in return, regardless of which Church I attend and how I deem best to vote. Just as you’re free to vote for gay marriage for your own personal reasons, I’m free to vote against it for my own personal reasons.

“Why are religious conservatives not highlighting the ways the Hate Crime laws can be used to protect Christians from rampant anti-Christian violence perpetrated by gays?”
Probably because this violence is by and large a myth.

Well put, Bob.
Except, it is my marriage and not some abstract dispute over the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin which is under discussion here.
Imagine for a second that your marriage, your right to raise your own children was being disputed by the gay community. Can you imagine how furious and insulted you would be?
Of course you are free to continue to deny my a basic human right. But you don’t get to claim that you see me as human if you do. It’s really that simple – either I am human and thus entitled to the same rights as you are, or I am not.
We saw this exact same debate over interracial marriage not all that long ago.

Clearly there is no reasoning with certain Christian conservatives, such as the American Family Association, who would rather bear false witness than engage in serious debate. Bob, I don’t put you in that category, but Panthera is right. You cannot profess to love LGBT people while denying our dignity and full equality. It’s one or the other. And Steven, are you serious? “Rampant anti-Christian violence perpetrated by gays?” Do you have any evidence of this, or are you just a shill for the AFA?

“It’s simply not true that the legislation protects pedophiles. “
This is not the first time a member of the self-described “Christian” right has lied about God’s gay and lesbian children. Nor will it be the last.
The RRR is simply a bunch of hate-filled liars who will stop at nothing to impose their not-so-hidden agenda on the rest of the populace.
Thanks for continuing to expose their campaign of lies and hate.

“Why are religious conservatives not highlighting the ways the Hate Crime laws can be used to protect Christians from rampant anti-Christian violence perpetrated by gays?”
Because there is no such “rampant anti-Christian violence perpetrated by gays”.
That’s why.

Tim,
Steven has a tendency to speak tongue-in-cheek which is rather unusual around here. I don’t for a minute think he is attacking us, rather, trying to defend us.
It’s fascinating to see how quickly the conservative Christians are resorting to violence now that their fascist reign of terror under shrub has ended.

Well, I don’t know. I’ve been known to quote the Bible at fundamentalist Christians in public before. They usually act like the wicked witch did when doused with water.
Does that count as violence? I mean, I realise it doesn’t come close to raping a transgender person or tying a terrified young man up to a fence and beating him to death.
I suppose I could run around putting little stick-it notes on their polyester clothes: Red and Green are Never Seen or some such.
Nah, try as I might I just can’t quite reach their level of hateful nastiness.
You’re right. We gays and transgender just don’t have it in us to beat, rape, murder and torture fundamentalist Christians. Guess God just failed us totally there, too.

I believe that these groups rely on fear and the identification of enemies (real or imagined) in order to exercise control. It meets their need to control access, project their deeper feelings, and set a boundry that must be protected at all cost. It is a sad and demanding way to live. But some people require that sort of closed margin, disciplined, and polar perspective to survive in a world of ambiguities. Once they have cast off their mummification of fear there are liberal groups and churches (like my own United Church of Christ) ready to welcome them into inclusive, celebrative, and open communities.

Part of the problem is, of course, that we gays and transgender for far too many years let the christianists get away with attacking us – both physically and verbally.
We are not asking for new rights, we are asking for our rights to be recognized.
The response of the conservative Christians has been to physically attack us.
At this point, it is only a matter of time before we are recognized in the US as fully human. What happens then? Do we really want another segregation as we have seen between the black and white churches? A further splitting of the Christian body into ever small, ever more homogeneous and exclusive splitter groups?

So in reading the various blog entries here, all I see are the usual insults of conservative Christians without any discussion of the actual concerns they have. Why not discuss why prosecution of Christians will not happen for simply quoting the bible in public as has happened in many instances?

Rob,
Because it hasn’t happened?
Every week, at least three gays or transgender are murdered, severely beaten, raped and tortured in the US by conservative Christians.
That is documented fact.
Why not address reality instead of the red herrings?

Or, Rob, because the “concerns” of the conservative Christians are not real concerns but just excuses for treating gays and transgender as badly as they can?
Tell you what, you post your “concerns” and I am quite sure there will be people here who are willing to entertain them.
Are you willing to give my concerns any validity?

Why in the world are the conservative Christians so scared they have to lie to continue to have their “flock” stay under their control? “W” and his goons are out of office, and the government is finally trying to do something to protect ALL citizens of the USA. Maybe those RR are afraid of not being heard as loudly as before. Sorry, but this country is for the most part, changing for the best. Protection for all, not just Christian views of who “all” includes, will happen slowly, but will happen.

pagansister,
That’s easy to answer – they are bullies, they know that their hatred and oppression is wrong and they fear that we will now treat them the way they treated us.
Fortunately for them,we aren’t like them – we have hearts.

You guys….. your very stream-of-conscious flow of babble here condemns you of hypocrisy. I saw ONE Christian post in the above comments, with a sane and respectful request that you be more civil in this public forum. In every forum I find you guys, you are ranting about the ‘evil’ Christians, your oppressed ‘human’ status, and the need to rise up and end this intolerance once and for all. You are indeed people, and scary at that. You obviously hope to convince the uninitiated that you are under contrast attack, yet you guys are everywhere seemingly, spilling forth ‘anti-hate’ hate-talk. I particularly enjoyed the “statics” on how many gays are raped and killed and beaten by followers of Christ each week. If you want to learn something about persecution, go find a christian in China or northern Africa, and ask them what it cost them to simply believe what they do. You are acting like spoiled and pouting children who are used to getting their way. In your tantrums, you will say or do anything to get what you want. Shame on you!

Stephen, if you were going for irony here, you as a religion writer — of all people — should know that satire is a rhetorical art largely lost on religious conservatives.

Here we go again ….
June 18, 2009 4:35 PM
said:
“I particularly enjoyed the “statics” on how many gays are raped and killed and beaten by followers of Christ each week. ”
Um, Q.E.D.?

It is arguable that any ‘hate crimes’ legislation would be unconstitutional because of additional penalization based on thoughts (thought crimes).
That said; Mr. Waldman is spot on in recognizing that the pending Hate Crimes bill in no way protects pedophiles. I am embarrassed for those so desperate or ignorant to paint it as such.

I really wish people would actually take the time to read the legislation.
There is no punishment for thinking.
Conservative Christians will be free to continue to preach their hatred of us from their pulpits, free to continue to refuse to perform marriages for gays, transgender, interracial couples…
This paranoia on the far Christian right is already leading to murder. How much worse does it need to get before all those Christians in America screaming that they are being unfairly thrown in with the nut cases actually step up to bat and take responsibility for what these people are doing in the name of God?

Here we go again: “You are acting like spoiled and pouting children who are used to getting their way.”
Since when have LGBT people gotten their way? In my part of the country, the answer is “never”.
“In your tantrums, you will say or do anything to get what you want.”
Like comparing our opponents to pedophiles, for instance? Why has no one apologized for that yet?

Yes,I have seen the hearts on the part of the LGBT folks by beating women in SF, arresting Christians in Phily, etc. This is is all talking around the REAL issue that is that Christians do not want to be prosecuted for thought or conscience crimes simply because they publicly state that they believe that the bible says that homosexuality is wrong. This has always been the issue with “hate crimes”. Canada’s version is pretty chilling.

Quote: Canada’s version is pretty chilling.
That must be why so many thousands of Canadians are crossing the border fleeing government repression, eh? ROFL
Do you have any actual journalistic citations, from impartial sources, for the “hate crimes” you mention? Do you care to compare documented “hate crimes” against Christians against hate crimes committed against LGBT individuals? To put it bluntly: Put up or shut up.

Rob,
Quoting the racists over on crunchycon does not serve as unbiased or reliable.
I can’t find a single FBI note on any women having been beaten by Teh Gayz…
So, my dear sir: Either back up your statements or stop bearing false witness. I realize that conservative Christians don’t much care for the 10 commandments (like not committing adultry, Ensign anyone? or not murdering people, Dr. Tiller ring a bell?)but they really do apply, even to you.

Um, what rampant anti-Christian violence perpetrated by gays? The only thing I can think of is the brouhaha after Prop 8′s passing, which was of course inexcusable and totally shameful to the rest of the community.
It really concerns me that Steven doesn’t think gays (or transgender people for that matter) are important enough to add to the list– it just seems really callous to say “oh, well, we don’t want to add too many categories” when sexual and gender minorities are more often the victims of hate violence than any other group in this country. If any classifications ought to be covered, it’s those two, especially if race is covered, because being gay or trans is no more a choice than being black.

Let’s see… Miss california bring any memories back? That was rampant hate…I remember seeing on cbn back in 92 a video of homosexuals attacking people attending a rally at a catholic church in new york..its on tape people..rude and suggestive and violent in nature..email cbn ask for them to add that video to youtube. and this was in 92..the homosexual community hates christians and the world is on their side.Why do they hate us. I have a stepson who is homosexual and a stepdaughter who thinks she is bi..do i hate them no..but i hate what that lifestyle is doing to them.the sonsays he has wanted out all his life.but he will not seek help from people who have been delivered from the problem. the daughter says her friends are all trying it..What is happening to this world? Hpmpsexuality has gained ground as NORMAL.The mindset of the usa is changing. Truly the Bible is correct in saying “In the last days that which is evil will be thought of as good and good will be thought of as evil…that day is here folks. Judgement is not to far off.

Cassie C
July 2, 2009 3:51 AM
Um, what rampant anti-Christian violence perpetrated by gays? The only thing I can think of is the brouhaha after Prop 8′s passing, which was of course inexcusable and totally shameful to the rest of the community.
===
This is simply the Christian martyrdom and victimhood tactic. Claim that you are a victim, and do not justify it.
If anything the gays have been restrained. Nothing in history has eve been accomplished through strict non-violence, and Christianity has benefited from this. Christians have wreaked violence for centuries, and should be prepared to have their churches burned down by those that it has wronged.

“Why are religious conservatives not highlighting the ways the Hate Crime laws can be used to protect Christians from rampant anti-Christian violence perpetrated by gays?”
Um, maybe because those “crimes” simply aren’t happening. Imaginary attacks? Pure delusion on the part of the ‘conservative’ ‘christian’ ‘right’.

Rob,
“I have seen the hearts on the part of the LGBT folks by beating women in SF”
Citations please. (Otherwise, we’ll know you’re merely bearing false witness.)
“arresting Christians in Phily”
Again, citations please. (Otherwise, we’ll know you’re merely bearing false witness – AGAIN!)
“This is is all talking around the REAL issue that is that Christians do not want to be prosecuted for thought or conscience crimes”
They aren’t, they haven’t been and they won’t be. This is more lying by the so-called “Christian” ‘right’.
“simply because they publicly state that they believe that the bible says that homosexuality is wrong.”
If that was all they said, we could chalk it up to ignorance (which it is) and leave well enough alone – you go to your church and I’ll go to mine sort of thing. Trouble is, they go on (and on) to compare consenting adult human same-sex relationships to beastiality, rape, child-molestation, “marryin’ a plant” (a direct quote from Erin Manning on the Crucnhy Con blog, alongside “marryin’ a rock” or a “bicycyle”, etc.), necrophilia – why, the list is endless and endlessly ‘creative’ (aka false). And then they go on and say (and here again, I’m quoting, in this case, The Bible) “they shall surely be put to death”. Do you believe gay people should be put to death?
“This has always been the issue with hate crimes. Canada’s version is pretty chilling.”
Pure and utter bullshit. I’m from Canada and it simply is not happening the way you portray it.