Why Won't Christian Leaders Block Gay Hate Crimes Against Christians???

In all seriousness, I suspect this is because the majority of conservative Christians are either illiterate or incapable of the independent thought necessary to actually read the legislation.

They are content to let their leaders tell them what and how to think.

Of course, this has also become a wedge issue, a last line-in-the-sand for the conservative Christians.
If we homosexuals and transgender are granted full human status, they will have lost pretty much all their objects of hatred.

All that remained would be working harder on themselves to fulfill God's requirements upon us to be charitable and loving.
That's hard work. Attacking my marriage is easy.

Panthera,

"All that remained would be working harder on themselves to fulfill God's requirements upon us to be charitable and loving."

Since you referred to us as illiterate, and insinuated we mindlessly follow our "leaders", it seems like you might wanna work on being a little more charitable yourself.

"If we homosexuals and transgender are granted full human status, they will have lost pretty much all their objects of hatred."

I may disagree with gay marriage, but I still see homosexuals and transgenders as humans. Also, I don't hate anyone, let alone you or anyone else for being gay. So please, let's not lump me in with the lunatic fringe. The gay community doesn't like being painted with broad strokes of bigotry, and neither does the conservative community or the Christian community.

I'm happy to exercise tolerance in a pluralistic society, but I expect the same in return, regardless of which Church I attend and how I deem best to vote. Just as you're free to vote for gay marriage for your own personal reasons, I'm free to vote against it for my own personal reasons.

Well put, Bob.

Except, it is my marriage and not some abstract dispute over the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin which is under discussion here.

Imagine for a second that your marriage, your right to raise your own children was being disputed by the gay community. Can you imagine how furious and insulted you would be?

Of course you are free to continue to deny my a basic human right. But you don't get to claim that you see me as human if you do. It's really that simple - either I am human and thus entitled to the same rights as you are, or I am not.

We saw this exact same debate over interracial marriage not all that long ago.

"It's simply not true that the legislation protects pedophiles. "

This is not the first time a member of the self-described "Christian" right has lied about God's gay and lesbian children. Nor will it be the last.

The RRR is simply a bunch of hate-filled liars who will stop at nothing to impose their not-so-hidden agenda on the rest of the populace.

Thanks for continuing to expose their campaign of lies and hate.

Tim,
Steven has a tendency to speak tongue-in-cheek which is rather unusual around here. I don't for a minute think he is attacking us, rather, trying to defend us.

It's fascinating to see how quickly the conservative Christians are resorting to violence now that their fascist reign of terror under shrub has ended.

I believe that these groups rely on fear and the identification of enemies (real or imagined) in order to exercise control. It meets their need to control access, project their deeper feelings, and set a boundry that must be protected at all cost. It is a sad and demanding way to live. But some people require that sort of closed margin, disciplined, and polar perspective to survive in a world of ambiguities. Once they have cast off their mummification of fear there are liberal groups and churches (like my own United Church of Christ) ready to welcome them into inclusive, celebrative, and open communities.

So in reading the various blog entries here, all I see are the usual insults of conservative Christians without any discussion of the actual concerns they have. Why not discuss why prosecution of Christians will not happen for simply quoting the bible in public as has happened in many instances?

Or, Rob, because the "concerns" of the conservative Christians are not real concerns but just excuses for treating gays and transgender as badly as they can?

Tell you what, you post your "concerns" and I am quite sure there will be people here who are willing to entertain them.

Are you willing to give my concerns any validity?

pagansister,
That's easy to answer - they are bullies, they know that their hatred and oppression is wrong and they fear that we will now treat them the way they treated us.
Fortunately for them,we aren't like them - we have hearts.

Stephen, if you were going for irony here, you as a religion writer -- of all people -- should know that satire is a rhetorical art largely lost on religious conservatives.

It is arguable that any 'hate crimes' legislation would be unconstitutional because of additional penalization based on thoughts (thought crimes).

That said; Mr. Waldman is spot on in recognizing that the pending Hate Crimes bill in no way protects pedophiles. I am embarrassed for those so desperate or ignorant to paint it as such.

Here we go again: "You are acting like spoiled and pouting children who are used to getting their way."

Since when have LGBT people gotten their way? In my part of the country, the answer is "never".

"In your tantrums, you will say or do anything to get what you want."

Like comparing our opponents to pedophiles, for instance? Why has no one apologized for that yet?

Quote: Canada's version is pretty chilling.

That must be why so many thousands of Canadians are crossing the border fleeing government repression, eh? ROFL

Do you have any actual journalistic citations, from impartial sources, for the "hate crimes" you mention? Do you care to compare documented "hate crimes" against Christians against hate crimes committed against LGBT individuals? To put it bluntly: Put up or shut up.

Um, what rampant anti-Christian violence perpetrated by gays? The only thing I can think of is the brouhaha after Prop 8's passing, which was of course inexcusable and totally shameful to the rest of the community.

It really concerns me that Steven doesn't think gays (or transgender people for that matter) are important enough to add to the list-- it just seems really callous to say "oh, well, we don't want to add too many categories" when sexual and gender minorities are more often the victims of hate violence than any other group in this country. If any classifications ought to be covered, it's those two, especially if race is covered, because being gay or trans is no more a choice than being black.

Cassie C
July 2, 2009 3:51 AM
Um, what rampant anti-Christian violence perpetrated by gays? The only thing I can think of is the brouhaha after Prop 8's passing, which was of course inexcusable and totally shameful to the rest of the community.
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This is simply the Christian martyrdom and victimhood tactic. Claim that you are a victim, and do not justify it.

If anything the gays have been restrained. Nothing in history has eve been accomplished through strict non-violence, and Christianity has benefited from this. Christians have wreaked violence for centuries, and should be prepared to have their churches burned down by those that it has wronged.

Rob,

"I have seen the hearts on the part of the LGBT folks by beating women in SF"

Citations please. (Otherwise, we'll know you're merely bearing false witness.)

"arresting Christians in Phily"

Again, citations please. (Otherwise, we'll know you're merely bearing false witness - AGAIN!)

"This is is all talking around the REAL issue that is that Christians do not want to be prosecuted for thought or conscience crimes"

They aren't, they haven't been and they won't be. This is more lying by the so-called "Christian" 'right'.

"simply because they publicly state that they believe that the bible says that homosexuality is wrong."

If that was all they said, we could chalk it up to ignorance (which it is) and leave well enough alone - you go to your church and I'll go to mine sort of thing. Trouble is, they go on (and on) to compare consenting adult human same-sex relationships to beastiality, rape, child-molestation, "marryin' a plant" (a direct quote from Erin Manning on the Crucnhy Con blog, alongside "marryin' a rock" or a "bicycyle", etc.), necrophilia - why, the list is endless and endlessly 'creative' (aka false). And then they go on and say (and here again, I'm quoting, in this case, The Bible) "they shall surely be put to death". Do you believe gay people should be put to death?

"This has always been the issue with hate crimes. Canada's version is pretty chilling."

Pure and utter bullshit. I'm from Canada and it simply is not happening the way you portray it.