Over the weekend, I've been inundated by emails and tweets. Some have been from those who, like Adam, have found the denominational system of ordination to be abusive and are wondering what to do. Others have asked me to write more abut my theology of ordination. And still others have expressed "disappointment" (a truly patronizing word) at the tone of my Friday post. They've said things like, "As a Christian leader, you need to be more gracious in your writing." Well, I call bullshit on that. When a friend of mine suffers abuse, I do not plan to be gracious about it.
My long-time friend, John D'Elia has posted the most thorough and evenhanded response to my Friday rant. John is the pastor of the American Church in London, he's ordained in the PC(USA), and I respect him deeply. I ask you to go read that, then come back here and read my response to him. You'll find it below the fold.
John,
Before I begin the substance of my response, let me remind you of this: I've written often of my understanding of the medium of blogging. It's not academic work -- not even close. It is not careful work. It is immediate work. I've had a couple UCC pastors write me recently to say that they've quit reading my blog -- and one even de-friended me on Facebook because I wasn't responding to his many emails. Why? Because I called their denomination "notoriously liberal." They thought I should be more sophisiticated, nuanced, and frankly, academic in my characterization. So let me say this: Don't expect too much of a blog.
1) You title your post, "An Emergent Discussion." That is a misnomer. Virtually every emergent leader I know is ordained -- most by a denomination. In my evolving opinions of denominations and ordination, I speak for myself alone. I think that the minority of people in emergent churches agree with me on this.
2) Solomon's Porch is not a house church. We are a body of 250ish persons with 501(c)(3) status from the IRS. We rent an abandoned United Methodist Church building. And we have an "ordained" pastor. But our deal is this: We ordain everyone. If you want to be ordained to perform a wedding, or to be a lawnmower repairman, we'll ordain you to that ministry.
This is not to vaunt everyone to a high position, but to subvert and deconstruct the very notion of ordination. It is NOT like what John Wesley did (although there are some interesting parallels -- see below) or like what the fundamentalists did or the Lutherans or the Calvinists. We ordain everyone, and I started an online petition to ordain Adam, to be ironic. It's to point up what I consider to be the arbitrariness of the bureaucratic systems, and, to be honest, the tax benefits, of ordination. In other words, this is the opposite of a YoungLife leader who writes away to some dude to get ordained for the housing allowance write-off. This is, instead, to show how that entire system leads to such ridiculousness.
3) Hey, thanks again for preaching at my ordination in 1997 (I preached at an ordination service myself a couple years ago; I'll post my sermon on Wednesday). I remember my ordination well. But let me remind you about my ordination: It's not from a denomination. As a Congregationalist, I was ordained by the Colonial Church of Edina, the discrete, local church body in which I was raised, full of persons who have known me and my family since my grandparents co-founded the church in 1946. Those people told me, beginning in 7th grade, that I was "called to ministry," and they have nurtured me along that path all the way till now. I consider ordination in the Congregationalist setting very different from one ordained by a national assembly or by a bishop (that is, the presbyterian, synodical, or episcopal systems).
4) Both you and others have questioned whether Adam has been entirely forthcoming in his posting about these matters. Maybe, some have implied, there's a back story of disobedience that Adam is hiding from the blogosphere. I can assure you that Adam is being candid about his candidacy. In fact, he runs the distinct possibility of getting dooced for his public honesty about the process's abuses. There's a reason that most ordinands don't start to bitch about how they were screwed by the system until after they're ordained -- because if they do it any sooner, the system will have its retribution.
TO BE CONTINUED...
Before I begin the substance of my response, let me remind you of this: I've written often of my understanding of the medium of blogging. It's not academic work -- not even close. It is not careful work. It is immediate work. I've had a couple UCC pastors write me recently to say that they've quit reading my blog -- and one even de-friended me on Facebook because I wasn't responding to his many emails. Why? Because I called their denomination "notoriously liberal." They thought I should be more sophisiticated, nuanced, and frankly, academic in my characterization. So let me say this: Don't expect too much of a blog.
1) You title your post, "An Emergent Discussion." That is a misnomer. Virtually every emergent leader I know is ordained -- most by a denomination. In my evolving opinions of denominations and ordination, I speak for myself alone. I think that the minority of people in emergent churches agree with me on this.
2) Solomon's Porch is not a house church. We are a body of 250ish persons with 501(c)(3) status from the IRS. We rent an abandoned United Methodist Church building. And we have an "ordained" pastor. But our deal is this: We ordain everyone. If you want to be ordained to perform a wedding, or to be a lawnmower repairman, we'll ordain you to that ministry.
This is not to vaunt everyone to a high position, but to subvert and deconstruct the very notion of ordination. It is NOT like what John Wesley did (although there are some interesting parallels -- see below) or like what the fundamentalists did or the Lutherans or the Calvinists. We ordain everyone, and I started an online petition to ordain Adam, to be ironic. It's to point up what I consider to be the arbitrariness of the bureaucratic systems, and, to be honest, the tax benefits, of ordination. In other words, this is the opposite of a YoungLife leader who writes away to some dude to get ordained for the housing allowance write-off. This is, instead, to show how that entire system leads to such ridiculousness.
3) Hey, thanks again for preaching at my ordination in 1997 (I preached at an ordination service myself a couple years ago; I'll post my sermon on Wednesday). I remember my ordination well. But let me remind you about my ordination: It's not from a denomination. As a Congregationalist, I was ordained by the Colonial Church of Edina, the discrete, local church body in which I was raised, full of persons who have known me and my family since my grandparents co-founded the church in 1946. Those people told me, beginning in 7th grade, that I was "called to ministry," and they have nurtured me along that path all the way till now. I consider ordination in the Congregationalist setting very different from one ordained by a national assembly or by a bishop (that is, the presbyterian, synodical, or episcopal systems).
4) Both you and others have questioned whether Adam has been entirely forthcoming in his posting about these matters. Maybe, some have implied, there's a back story of disobedience that Adam is hiding from the blogosphere. I can assure you that Adam is being candid about his candidacy. In fact, he runs the distinct possibility of getting dooced for his public honesty about the process's abuses. There's a reason that most ordinands don't start to bitch about how they were screwed by the system until after they're ordained -- because if they do it any sooner, the system will have its retribution.
TO BE CONTINUED...
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@Mike Morrell -- I don't disagree with you that there is some semblance of meritocracy in publishing (really, there is in ministry, too--churches with great preachers are usually bigger). My main point is the one that is parallel with the ordination issue: You still have to get past the bureaucracy of "gatekeepers" in both industries.
I've been harping on Tony for quite awhile about this primarily because he likes to apply open source methodology to the church (which is good), but is unwilling to apply the same lens to the publishing industry, and his own publishing practices (which is a bit hypocritical).
Come to think of it, as much as he preaches open source methodology, I wonder if he uses Linux? I certainly hope that someone who writes a blog post calling for us to "open source" the ordination process didn't actually write those words on a Mac -- the most closed, institutional, and proprietary of all operating systems.
@Mike Morrell
"A paid denominational minister, on the other hand, can and often does coast for years on mediocre material at best, continuing to draw salary and benefits."
This totally depends on how the corporation that hires the minister to a given position measures "coasting" and "mediocre material." It also ignores the immense amount of marketing and naively assumes that people know what they are buying when they buy it. I might buy a book that tells me exactly what I want to hear. That might be Tony's book. If this is the case, am I coasting along and is Tony's material helping that?
Most marketing is designed around one simple principle: get someone to buy something by making them believe they need it, and do it by getting them to make that choice irrationally. Books like the Shack are very different, and very very rare. The point is that most books sell because people believe more hype than substance. It's how our consumer economy works. If people made rational choices when they buy stuff, you might have a solid point. But very little in how goods are marketed supports that assumption. To Neal Locke's point, if Tony went independent and self-published we would have a better case that buying a book is more equitable than hiring a pastor.
We seem to have this idea that traditions are bad because they are "out-dated." I know of many golden agers who deeply rely on these traditions at a point in their lives when they are the most meaningful. To a younger parishioner, respecting these traditions and spending lots of time at women's groups eating lousy casseroles is "coasting." To that shut-in or that cranky "old guy" that kind of structure is exactly where they meet God every Sunday, and every Wednesday at 7 am.
In short, I think this seems like an intuitive assumption Mike, but I do not see it as a valid one without evidence by which to measure coasting and mediocrity. The art of being a good pastor is to feed people who sit next to each other and all require a different flavor of the Scriptures to feed their soul. One person's mediocrity is another person's source of life.
"When a friend of mine suffers abuse, I do not plan to be gracious about it."
Um...I have no idea what to make of a statement like that.
Surely you meant "I have a right to speak up" or "An obligation to be angry"?
But, as your brother in Christ, I kind of expect you to be gracious. Luke chapter 6 and all.
Dear brother, the problem isn't "systems", "beauracracies", or "church governments". These are only as good as the people within them. It always comes down to people, not systems, groups, etc.. If one soccer team is corrupt, does it mean that all soccer teams are? If one local church body is corrupt or even just mistaken on something, does it mean that all church bodies should be mistrusted and abandoned?
Also, too, scripture clearly teaches that God works for our good through the authorities in our lives, even if they are corrupt or evil. The infancy narratives clearly demonstrate how God fulfilled prophecies concerning the Messiah through the evil plans of King Herod. Mother Teresa received a call from Christ to go to the "poorest of the poor", but her superiors refused to let her go, due to dangers they perceived. For three years, she submitted to their request, trusting the Lord to make the way. Finally, she asked again and they said yes. Later in her life, she testified that she learned things during those three years that gave her ministry greater impact and wisdom. Perhaps, Adam should prayerfully submit and trust the Lord to work for his good and the good of others in this milieu.
http://dan-mayes.blogspot.com/2009/06/ordination-for-people.html
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