Anthony "Postmodern Negro" Smith: The shift is taking place. Folks are out and about playing their role in this emerging Jesus-movement in the United States and abroad. That's why I'm curious about the disappointment people are describing with Emergent Village. Emergence are everywhere in the kingdom of God. So...as I step out into the missional stream this morning looking for God's activity @ the local hub I will pray for those who are disappointed. I pray they find their place in this wonderful Jesus-movement that is sprouting up all over the country now.
Jonathan Brink: Emergence isn't a fad that requires me. It's not something that I can control. It's something I can only participate in. It's happening whether I like it or not. It's unwieldy and chaotic. It goes here when I want to go there. It makes me wait when I don't want to, and calls me when I'm busy. Kind of like the Holy Spirit. And it is in these moments that my own intentions are questioned. And I don't like that. Who does?
Zach Lind: [Embedded video interview with Nick.]
John D'Elia: What the Emergent movement has happily avoided is the unchecked, unmanaged expansion and hubris that killed off Promise Keepers (remember them?). For the complaints I'm reading from Emergents about people in the movement making a living at it, money has not become either the driving force or life blood of Emergent ministry. That's a great thing. That's a sign of wisdom and prudence and maturity (sorry for the traditionalist litany there) that PK and other flashes in the pan never had.
Jonny Baker: i liked the way emergent blew open a conversation in the US
and gave permission for questions. to be honest it was a conversation
we'd been having in the uk for about 1o years before but it was always
about networking, practice at the grassroots, and working out what it
meant to follow in the way of christ in your (postmodern or whatever)
locale. if you are disappointed fair enough. but get some people
together and live some stuff out and connect with some others doing the
same thing - that's it!
Makeesha: If EV isn't your thing, whatever, it's only a small piece of the whole movement of
christianity anyway - but there's no reason for
anyone to distinguish themselves APART from EV. I have seen quite a few
"oh by the way I'm not Emergent anymore" posts lately and I don't feel
offended, I just think it's weird. OK, so you're not emergent anymore,
SO WHAT? What the hell ARE you doing?
Josh Brown: The Emerging Church and to a lesser extent the receptical of the conversation, Emergent Village, are now neutered versions of what they could be. The protectors of the conversation have A) either sold out or B) still talking to hear themselves talk. And in it's place is just another cliche marketing veneer straight out of Grand Rapids. The degree of difference between all of the hodge podged groups that fall under the emerging/missional/resurgence banner is the degree to how much of a UFC pride fighter Jesus really is. Other than that it's the same colored conversation, just a different shade.
James Mills: I have made some deep and long lasting friendships with some people in this conversation. These people have challenged and shaped me and helped me to become a more faithful carrier of The Name. This conversation sustained me through a very difficult displacement from the church I used to be a part of. And like so many other people have said, this conversation became something more. It became a place. A community. A network. a web of relationships. And while I don't know many of the 24 people who met in Washington to dream new ecclesial dreams together have a hard time understanding what they hope their efforts will produce I am not concerned about the outcome.
Jonathan Stegall: But this is how culture works. We cannot have a revolution of the way church functions in a decade, or three decades, if we look more broadly at the emerging church. It is essential that we learn a sustainable perspective on change, in order to find out how Emergent Village specifically, and the broader emerging church in general, can affect change on the church at large.
Matt Scott: We (the emerging church) have always accepted new guys into the fold, this was never ment to be members only club, and if someone acted out of hand they weren't rejected, they were loved. Now you want to start talking about new guys pushing you out of the circle? What the hell, we don't even like cirlces here, and if we do draw them, we make them so effing big we put people in them that don't want to be.
Drew Tatusko: If there is frustration over the lack of revolution, it is because the idea of revolution was and still is something bound for inevitable failure. Feeling disenfranchised should not be confused with a revolution because it is not. Selling all that you have and following Christ to permanently alter systems that reinforces classism, unfettered capitalist greed at the expense of millions to incite local change, and a reified free-market religious ethos more akin to success in business than love of neighbor - well that's revolutionary. It's revolutionary because it's political and social. You can't have a revolution without it emerging from this place and revolutions require leaders who sacrifice everything they have to the point of death. No revolution has been without this kind of charisma and none will be. It's also why I despise "revolutionary" branding like the image of a Hugo boss glasses wearing, goateed face 20 something drinking free-trade coffee while wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt listening to protest music as if that is a revolution. That is capitalism and you have been bought by a brand. Sorry to inform you that what you thought were changing actually co-opted your myopia.
Paul Glavic: Is there room within EV or greater emergence for people who don't hate Rick Warren but are becoming increasingly interested in re-claiming the gospel's missional Kingdom emphasis? Or is this a conversation about being pissed off about all of the same things? If that's the case, then screw the "conversation," because it's nothing like a Messiah who esteemed what he saw as good within the diverse people he encountered.
Julie Clawson: So those of us who are part of this thing called emergent - who are passionate about this call to live in the kingdom of God and thrive on this conversation are wondering what do do. We already experienced the droves of deserters who left because emergent doesn't 1. hate women like they hate women, 2. hate gays like they hate gays, or 3. believe in a certain type of hatred of God towards Jesus on the cross (or all of the above). Then there are all you guys who paved the way for this conversation to even exist saying that you are disappointed that new people joined and spoiled your fun. We are looking for guidance and then read comments like Josh's on your blog "maybe it's selfish on my part, but i just don't feel like helping anybody else along." It hurts to be rejected like that. To those of us who still appreciate the conversation and who see the good it is still doing to those who are just now joining in, it's a slap in the face to be told that we are dead or fizzled out. I am the first to admit that emergent needs a lot of help right now, but different isn't dead, just different.
Carol Howard Merritt: There is the hope for revolution, but then there's a pernicious elitism that questions people who join the conversation later, or who might be a part of a denomination, or those who fall under that most amorphous and damning category-the people who "just don't get it."
Mike Clawson: It kind of sucks that so many people are wanting to pull the plug on Emergent Village right when so many women and minorities are just stepping up into leadership (e.g. the recent DC gathering). The big white males that these folks have been complaining about so much are stepping aside/making room for these others, and that's when they all decide to leave the party? Kind of ironic, don't you think?
Yours Truly: Martin Luther King didn't coach t-ball; neither did Ghandi. Start a revolution if you want, but that's not a price that I'm willing to pay.
Makeesha: If EV isn't your thing, whatever, it's only a small piece of the whole movement of
christianity anyway - but there's no reason for
anyone to distinguish themselves APART from EV. I have seen quite a few
"oh by the way I'm not Emergent anymore" posts lately and I don't feel
offended, I just think it's weird. OK, so you're not emergent anymore,
SO WHAT? What the hell ARE you doing?Josh Brown: The Emerging Church and to a lesser extent the receptical of the conversation, Emergent Village, are now neutered versions of what they could be. The protectors of the conversation have A) either sold out or B) still talking to hear themselves talk. And in it's place is just another cliche marketing veneer straight out of Grand Rapids. The degree of difference between all of the hodge podged groups that fall under the emerging/missional/resurgence banner is the degree to how much of a UFC pride fighter Jesus really is. Other than that it's the same colored conversation, just a different shade.
James Mills: I have made some deep and long lasting friendships with some people in this conversation. These people have challenged and shaped me and helped me to become a more faithful carrier of The Name. This conversation sustained me through a very difficult displacement from the church I used to be a part of. And like so many other people have said, this conversation became something more. It became a place. A community. A network. a web of relationships. And while I don't know many of the 24 people who met in Washington to dream new ecclesial dreams together have a hard time understanding what they hope their efforts will produce I am not concerned about the outcome.
Jonathan Stegall: But this is how culture works. We cannot have a revolution of the way church functions in a decade, or three decades, if we look more broadly at the emerging church. It is essential that we learn a sustainable perspective on change, in order to find out how Emergent Village specifically, and the broader emerging church in general, can affect change on the church at large.
Matt Scott: We (the emerging church) have always accepted new guys into the fold, this was never ment to be members only club, and if someone acted out of hand they weren't rejected, they were loved. Now you want to start talking about new guys pushing you out of the circle? What the hell, we don't even like cirlces here, and if we do draw them, we make them so effing big we put people in them that don't want to be.
Drew Tatusko: If there is frustration over the lack of revolution, it is because the idea of revolution was and still is something bound for inevitable failure. Feeling disenfranchised should not be confused with a revolution because it is not. Selling all that you have and following Christ to permanently alter systems that reinforces classism, unfettered capitalist greed at the expense of millions to incite local change, and a reified free-market religious ethos more akin to success in business than love of neighbor - well that's revolutionary. It's revolutionary because it's political and social. You can't have a revolution without it emerging from this place and revolutions require leaders who sacrifice everything they have to the point of death. No revolution has been without this kind of charisma and none will be. It's also why I despise "revolutionary" branding like the image of a Hugo boss glasses wearing, goateed face 20 something drinking free-trade coffee while wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt listening to protest music as if that is a revolution. That is capitalism and you have been bought by a brand. Sorry to inform you that what you thought were changing actually co-opted your myopia.
Paul Glavic: Is there room within EV or greater emergence for people who don't hate Rick Warren but are becoming increasingly interested in re-claiming the gospel's missional Kingdom emphasis? Or is this a conversation about being pissed off about all of the same things? If that's the case, then screw the "conversation," because it's nothing like a Messiah who esteemed what he saw as good within the diverse people he encountered.
Julie Clawson: So those of us who are part of this thing called emergent - who are passionate about this call to live in the kingdom of God and thrive on this conversation are wondering what do do. We already experienced the droves of deserters who left because emergent doesn't 1. hate women like they hate women, 2. hate gays like they hate gays, or 3. believe in a certain type of hatred of God towards Jesus on the cross (or all of the above). Then there are all you guys who paved the way for this conversation to even exist saying that you are disappointed that new people joined and spoiled your fun. We are looking for guidance and then read comments like Josh's on your blog "maybe it's selfish on my part, but i just don't feel like helping anybody else along." It hurts to be rejected like that. To those of us who still appreciate the conversation and who see the good it is still doing to those who are just now joining in, it's a slap in the face to be told that we are dead or fizzled out. I am the first to admit that emergent needs a lot of help right now, but different isn't dead, just different.
Carol Howard Merritt: There is the hope for revolution, but then there's a pernicious elitism that questions people who join the conversation later, or who might be a part of a denomination, or those who fall under that most amorphous and damning category-the people who "just don't get it."
Mike Clawson: It kind of sucks that so many people are wanting to pull the plug on Emergent Village right when so many women and minorities are just stepping up into leadership (e.g. the recent DC gathering). The big white males that these folks have been complaining about so much are stepping aside/making room for these others, and that's when they all decide to leave the party? Kind of ironic, don't you think?
Yours Truly: Martin Luther King didn't coach t-ball; neither did Ghandi. Start a revolution if you want, but that's not a price that I'm willing to pay.
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Young people can be awfully impatient, and I suppose all of us are tempted to want some instant gratification.
We have to remember how deep change happens - it does not move in a smooth trajectory like a rocket, but in jerks and fits and starts like a 74 Vega standard shift with a bad clutch trying to start on a hill.
I think that (unfavorably) comparing emergent/emergence/emerging to the 16th Century Reformation is ridiculous at this point, b/c both the "Reformation" label itself and its rock stars were finally settled on by history many, many years after the dust settled, not in the midst of everything. While in the midst of it, one can make great guesses as to who "started" something, but the perspective you need won't come until the shift has happened and you're into the post-shift phase.
In addition to the danger of being impatient is the danger of being parochial. In that regard, I don't know that I would start "emergent" with Brian, Doug and Tony anyway. What about the UK? The folks in the C of E and Methodist churches are 10 or 15 years "ahead" of us in this "conversation", and I'll bet many Americans can't name more than 3 people from over there.
If we have to name names in this country, why start w/ Brian et al.? Take a longer view of the post-industrial age historical movement and you come up with folks like Dorothy Day and N. Gordon Cosby and MLK, Jr. and THEIR current day heroes, including, of course, Gandhi. But here's the cool part - some of the people who worked very closely with these people, who carried on the revolution, DID have lives that involved normal things like homemaking and cleaning houses. Think Rosa Parks.
What we need to do is worry a lot less about whether Emergents are up to snuff as far as their place in history and remember why this "emergence" is happening at all: "Christian" modernity created the most polarizing, bloodthirsty culture since humans climbed out of the trees. In that regard, Brian is absolutely right about one thing: Everything MUST change.
Nice to see Dorothy Day getting a mention in the comments of this post. She is one of the most under-rated Christian movers of the 20th century...possibly because she wasn't holy or saintly enough for mainstreamers.
i might just not get the emergant movement, but to me, it seems like it is a lot bigger than just churches and movements and all that.
it seems like an aknowledgement that there has been a huge change in our society. it seems like affirming that there is a different way of thinking about god and how we see our faith lived out.
that is not a movement, it is not a way of holding a church service. there may be ways of adressing that, which come out of the shift, but to me emergence is the shift more than the response.
So I coach volleyball and not t-ball. But I have lots of friends who have no job, no money, and have sacrificed so much in the name of Jesus Christ, the kingdom of God as partially realized eschatology, as well as living as missional people. To say that people haven't sacrificed? I guess I can only say, "Welcome to the conversation."
And for those who still have $500 in their bank accounts and have been around for more than a few years, they've likely been labeled heretics by more than one reformed theologian in America.
From Grand Rapids. :)
Well, what about yours truly? :-) I too posted on this. And yes, I am attention-seeking. You thought I was kidding about being a groupie? LOL
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