Too Good to Pass Up

ben,

"1) What does "in the closet" mean then with reference to Christian conservatives? (I didn't honestly think the graph-artist intended #1, I was just doing a little re-interpretation.)"

We're used to 're-interpretation' from "Christian" conservatives, ben. Being in the closet means not admitting publicly what you are (aka lieing - to yourself and to others). Your conjecture re those "born with homosexual desires, yet fight against those temptations so as not to commit the act of homosexuality" is both false and hollow. Homosexuality is NOT an "act" - anymore than heterosexuality is. Gay people can also be "obedient to God", just not your interpretation of Who/What God is and what God wants.

Also, you say regarding those "many who superficially and hypocritically deny and disregard these desires without adequately dealing with them and fighting against them". That's only one way of regarding things. Others not only "deal with them" but eventually come to the understanding that the way we are (our innate, unchanging humanity) is the way God 'designed' us (word chosen intentionally) and instead of "fighting against them" come to accept our sexuality as God's gift. Not everyone 'struggles with' their sexuality, you know.

But neither approach deals with "Christian" conservatives who are in the closet. Ted Haggard is an excellent example of a closeted Chrisian. He hates the way he is, publicly lies/lied about it, too) and yet acts on it (in secret) and publicly denounces others like him.

"2) Please inform of some of the things that I don't understand about homosexuality "as showcased in [my] post." I want to learn about where I showed misunderstanding."

Well, as explained above, you sure don't know what being in the closet means for one. For another, you presume that being gay is something one should "fight" in the first place. That you place "the fault of conservative pastors / teachers / leaders who aren't comfortable or willing to broach the topic of fighting against homosexual desires who deserve much of the blame" reveals so much misunderstanding in itself.

Another example is your statement: "Certainly, evangelicals needs to learn to talk about the reality of homosexual desires more openly as well as develop more-biblical, more-holistic approaches to counseling those who are struggling against these temptations." You refuse to deal with those people who are happily homosexual. We don't all "struggle" with our sexuality, and for you to believe so is yet another of your many 'misunderstandings'.

There is, in what you post, much presumption that people should/can only be heterosexual to, to use a fundie saying, 'be right with God'. It ain't necessarily so.

"3) How do you know that a person's sexuality is "God-given?" Are all "innate" things "God-given?" Are some folks (any?) personally deceived about what is God-given and what is sin? How does one guard against the possibility of such self-deception? How do YOU guard against it with reference toward YOUR sexuality?"

I don't know a single heterosexual Christian who does not believe God made them that way, and that their sexuality is innate. That they think we gay people can/should change is disproven when we ask them in return, 'Do you think you could become a homosexual?'

Sexuality is innate - as innate as handedness or eye color.

You can say that we are "personally deceived' all you want. The thing is, we likewise think you are personally deceived on this topic. You have been deceived by pastors the like of Jerry Fal(se)well (who 'teaches' that God's gay & lesbian children are the cause of hurricanes), or Jimmy Swaggart who thinks killing gays and lieing to God about it are a matter of humor.

Etcetera.

Thanx 4 askin'.

"What percentage of gay people *really* get beaten to death? Maybe 1% or less? You've got a better chance of a plane hitting your house. Same with a fat, old geek like me getting raped."

So why do you (allegedly) fear being raped so much? Oh right. The answer is ...

"But increasing irrational fear, is the technique of terrorists."

So stop living in fear and stop terrorizing God's gay and lesbian children with your admittedly irrational fears.

I find it fascinating that liberal or emergent Christians are adamantly sensitive to people criticizing any group of people except for conservative Christians. I completely agree with the poster earlier who left a similar comment stating such. God's word is blatantly clear that members of the church are to avoid all immoral sexual activities, and the bible plainly states over and over that homosexuality is a sin. The conflict within the church over the issue of gay marriage has risen because our emergent brethren seem to find the bible "too mean" or "unenlightened," but liberal Christians fail to see that God's knowledge and God's reasoning is infinitely superior to our knowledge and our reasoning. In seeking to gather support for homosexuality in the church, liberal Christians are not only telling God what they, in their high enlightened opinion, think of His morality, but they are also picking and choosing what they will believe in His word.
Accepting God's word is an act of faith, but many people in our modern age are too prideful or rely too heavily on their own reasoning, finding it far superior to God's reasoning.
Here are some verses from the bible to consider:

John 7:7- The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil. (How this relates- Jesus is God, and God's teaching that homosexuality is wrong upsets many people and causes many people to hate God's word. However, Jesus told us long ago in this verse that He would be hated for speaking the truths of His father.)

2 Timothy 3:16-17 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (How this relates- those who seek to discredit parts of God's word live in rebellion against the truth that all of the Bible is divinely inspired and is God's way of telling us how to live in harmony with Him).

1 Corinthians 1:10- I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. (How this relates- Christians who seek to persecute, humiliate, or isolate other Christians are causing dissent in the body of Christ, and are ultimately inhibiting God from working His will in the world. Christians are supposed to live in humility with love for one another and for non-believers. Please take note: just because someone tells someone else that they are living in sin does not mean that the person speaking does not love the person sinning. Sin is a barrier between humans and God, Christians should hold other Christians accountable to the word of God, as given by God. As a note to the author of this post and others like him- you are causing division and fueling hatred among the brethren. Just because a Christian justly stands against a behavior the Bible has deemed immoral does that mean that that person is secretly a hypocrite and is really gay themselves.)

How long will God's word and God's righteous morality continued to be trampled on by those who claim to love the Lord and are spreading false teachings from the Bible?

And just before I go...

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.