Virtual Talmud

Why Prostitution Degrades Us All

Tuesday March 18, 2008

Categories: U.S. Politics
In this Jewish season of farce, a lecherous ruler (King Achashverosh) is mocked for his desire to have a pretty woman (Queen Vashti) dance for his court wearing nothing but the royal crown. Truth, of course, is even stranger than...
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Comments
LESLIE FURSETZER
March 18, 2008 3:03 PM

TO BE HONEST, I'D VOTE TO LEGALIZE IT. THE ARGUEMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE FOR BOTH SIDES. BUT THE FACT IS THAT IT WILL NOT GO AWAY.. TO BE SAFE AND OFF THE STREETS, SAFER.. TO BE TESTED, SAFER. TO BE LICECNED AND PAY TAXES,MORE FOR STATE AND FEDS. BUT MOST OF ALL, WOULD HELP IN THE DECLINE OF KIDNAPING YOUNG LADIES INTO THE FIELD. I WOULD HOPE! NOTE; I MYSELF NEVER BEEN TO ONE AND PLAN NOT TO..

Dave
March 18, 2008 7:01 PM

I'd like to interject a bit of Judaism into this discussion if you don't mind. Vashti, who refused to parade naked in front of the King and his friends, is not the heroine of the book of Esther. Esther, her replacement, is, indicating quite clearly what Judaism thinks of queen's who won't do exactly what their kings want them to do.

Seamus MacNemi
March 18, 2008 7:27 PM

According to the way I was brought up to think, If a man degrades his wife, he degrades himself for the two are one in the marriage. I do not believe that a wife is a slave or a servant. A wife is an equal partner in the creation of a home and family

dennis crafton
March 19, 2008 10:09 AM

I agree with Leslie Fursetzer. At thew same time decriminalize marijuana. We'll save a lot of money on law enforcement and incarceration, and we can earmark the revenue for healthcare.

Yechiel
March 19, 2008 10:23 AM

Eliot Spitzer is, according to current standards, unfit to govern the State of New York on account of his prostitution-related activities. At the same time, George Bush remains in office despite having killed more than one million civilians in Iraq. This says alot about what matters to us as American citizens.

Steven Klein
March 19, 2008 10:30 AM

In saying that Spitzer "committed adultery," the author of this blog is betraying a shocking lack of familiarity with halacha.

According to Jewish law, adultery is defined as sex between a married woman and someone who is not her husband.

The woman with whom Spitzer met is not married, ipso facto, no adultery took place.


Is Spitzer despicable? Yes. Is he, according to halacha, an adulterer? No.

Elisheva
March 19, 2008 10:46 AM

According to Mr. Klein the halacha indicates that Spitzer is not an adulterer. But in my little knowledge of halacha which is extremely limited I believe that we have to behave respecting the laws of the land where we inhabit. And this country prohibits such illegal relationships and further defines adultery as sex between a married man or woman with someone that is not her husband or wife. So he may or not be an adulterer according to jewish halacha - I defer that judgement to jewish authorities but he is clearly an ADULTERER in America!!

Jumpn'_Jack_Flash
March 19, 2008 11:32 AM

My understanding as a Christian:
Adultery - Sexual relations(Intercourse) between a Man and Woman...either 'ONE' or 'BOTH is Married to a Third party.

Fornication - Sexual relations(Intercourse) between a Man and Woman...neither 'ONE' is Married.

Spitzer is guilty of Adulty, not only against 'GOD' but his wife and himself!!

Elliot
March 19, 2008 12:03 PM

Come down from your ivory tower. Prostitution has been going on for 5,000 years. As a country, we should not regulate morality. What a waste of resources it is to try to criminalize a non-criminal activity.
There are more arguments to justify the de-criminalization of prostitution, and for that matter marijuana, then there are arguments against it. If morality is not instilled early in life, it will be too late.

Mary
March 19, 2008 12:05 PM

Lots of opinions here. Rich conversation with many points of view. I speak as a human being: In my deepest understanding of Right and Wrong and of our Creator, guiltwise there cannot be a difference made in men and women! What kind of G-d creates Man and Woman, loves that creation, and yet sets up two standards of conduct? Come now, Christian, Jew, Innocent-passers-by. Spitzer wrongs us all, because his actions make a farce of faithfulness. At the same time, he has placed himself above the law that he himself enacted.

Now, can we really believe that Mr. Spitzer is as-was before Heaven? I think not. And if a woman had done the same, would she have Heaven's favor, or indifference? Would she have less? G-d help me understand if there is really a difference here in G-d's attitude toward, or the universal consequences of, the actions of male and female.

Mary
March 19, 2008 12:15 PM

The sentence "Now, can we really believe that Mr. Spitzer is as-was before Heaven?" in the 12:05 post by Mary should read,

"Now, can we really believe that Mr. Spitzer is as blameless before Heaven as he was before committing these actions?"

Thanks.

Cully
March 19, 2008 7:36 PM

The safety (for the prostitute) of legalization, the revenue tax-wise, and the safety (health-wise for everyone involved) of legalization are good things.
Legalization would not make it OK, but it would put control factors in play.
In America we can not regulate morality. That would be against everything that our founding fathers and mothers fought and died for - Freedom from religious oppression. If we were to start dictating what moral activities people could or could not be involved in then we would also have to pick a moral code to go by, and not all religions agree (even within their own sects) what their moral codes involve.
I live in Nevada. Prostitution is legal here. The attitude towards women (whether the relationship is man-woman or woman-woman) for the most part is demeaning. Every female (married or not) is potentially a prostitute, a home wrecker, or out to snag a man with sex. I'm not saying that there aren't men and women who feel this way without prostitution being legal, but when it is then that feeling seems to permeate everything. Just the other day I was at Vital Statistics and this woman and her sister were telling her son that he should marry a working woman so that he doesn't have to get a job.
Morality is taught at home and, from what I see, when prostitution is legalized the morality of respect for another human being goes right out the window.
And another thing... how in the world do they dare to call those places, "Gentlemen's" Clubs????

M. Gelband
March 20, 2008 1:55 AM

Whoever wrote this article has no kwowledge of Jewish law. Adultery as described in our Torah is a sexual act between a married woman and a man not her husband. A married man having sex with an umarried woman does not commit adultry. As a Jew, Spitzer is therefore not guilty of adultry.

Liorah
March 20, 2008 10:12 AM

Unless one knows all the women involved personally, it seems slightly presumptuous to claim that none of them were married. As was pointed out in an earlier post, many "men" (I use the word loosely) fondly imagine living well on the income from prostitution without actually having to work. Since many prostitutes *are* married, and Mr. Spitzer consorted with many of them, the likelihood of his being an adulterer within the letter of Jewish law seems fairly high.

Michel
March 20, 2008 1:32 PM

First, I believe it is wrong to treat a person as a thing. But I don't believe everyone who buys the time of another human for sexual intimacy views him (or her) as a thing. In fact I believe just the opposite is true. I believe the more times I go with the same man for sexual intimacy, the stronger the bond is between him and me. (He may not feel that way, but I do.) On the othe hand, I also believe that the more times someone is paid for it, the more he wants the money, not the initmacy. It becomes clear over time that he ony did it for the money.

Prostitution is already legal. We pay people to sell their bodies and souls by uttering lies concerning the products they sell. I know people who have sold their souls. They are to be sincerely pitied.

Carol
March 22, 2008 8:43 PM

Whether married, single, or anything in between, sex has reached its lowest level. It seems to be as easy to do as shaking hands. Whatever happened to teaching our young men that women are not there for their "pleasure" only. What about teaching our young women that their bodies are sacred.

Since STD's, AIDS and HIV are on the rise it would behoove us to teach our children the folly of sex for sex sake.

What ever happened to having a little discipline when it comes to sex. Married people have taken an oath before God and witnesses to be together until death parts them. This does not give them the freedom to bed anybody that comes along as long as their spouse doesn't know. Come on people wake up! Maybe we need to go back to the days of chaperons in order to keep our children pure and innocent.

And the sex trade with children and unwilling young people is just plain sick and perverted!!!!! These people should be prosecuted as much as pedophiles. They belong in jail where the other inmates will let them know what the children they exploited have experienced.

No matter the religion, sex outside of marriage is unacceptable. My conscience is clear, how about you???????

Elisheva
March 24, 2008 3:40 PM

We have gone out of the way to highlight whether Spitzer is an adulterer or not an adulterer per Jewish halacha. What is moral or inmoral. The bottom line is that he was a prosecutor who prosecuted many prostitution rings, which is illegal in N.Y. where he was Governor. Therefore, he violated the laws that he was supposed to observe and enforce. This goes beyond religion and morality. In addition, it touches other laws such as money laundering since he tried to disguise the transactions to avoid a trace and be undetected.

writer2consultant
March 28, 2008 1:28 PM

Marriages were arranged in Jewish tradition until the past Century and we have not come that far yet. In some circles Marriages may still be arranges or at least approved. There are still many expectations for which Jewish life that are placed upon relationships which may interfere with true loving relationships. Women do want to control their lives. Prositutes are able to do that to a certain extent unless they have a Pimp telling her what to do and taking her money. Does that occur in Jewish relationships? We must look deep into ourselves to see how we treat others and women in order to see if we are free from thinking that we are not part of a Prostitution Ring. We all sell ourselves in our daily lives in one way or another. It is the nature of the beast.

Steven Klein
April 4, 2008 10:31 AM

Carol wrote, "Married people have taken an oath before God and witnesses…

Vows are not part of a Jewish wedding. The only statement I made at my wedding was this:
.הרי את מקודשת לי בטבעת זו כדת משה וישראל
(" You are hereby betrothed to me with this ring in accordance with the laws of Moses and Israel.")

Carol's sentence finished thusly: "… to be together until death parts them."

Judaism permits divorce, and we know many marriages end in divorce. If Jewish couples vowed to remain together, then all those who later divorced would be guilty of having made a false vow. We take vows & oaths very seriously, and it's generally considered better to avoid them, rather than risk making a vow which one might later decide to break.

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