Windows and Doors

Windows and Doors

Kosher Meat, Meet Elk

posted by Brad Hirschfield | 1:23am Wednesday July 9, 2008

This tasty morsel just came across my desktop and I had to share. It turns out that among the many new Kosher products hitting the shelves, we will now have kosher elk fresh from South Dakota. That’s right, elk. This classic game animal hunted for eons on the prairies of North America and the steppes of Europe, will now be available to those who have no tradition of hunting whatsoever!
I mean Jews are classically so disconnected from hunting that when Billy Crystal was on The Tonight Show and the discussion turned to hunting, about which he had nothing to say, he remarked to the host: Johnny, you need to remember that I’m Jewish. We’re not hunters, we’re furriers! So what’s going on?
I guess there is always a Jewish market for that which has been heretofore prohibited. And why should we be different than anyone else? Most of us enjoy access to those things that were unavailable and unattainable until some new reality hit – but that’s the funny part. Elk is not newly kosher. No rabbis have suddenly discovered new rules that would make this classic game meat permissible.
Elk has always (please no lectures about evolution and zoology) met the requirements of being a kosher land animal i.e. it has split hooves and chews its cud. But since most of us don’t raise and slaughter our own meat, it hasn’t been available – until now.
Is this a step in the right direction – another example of Jews becoming increasingly normal?
Is this a sick joke in which we will fill our plates with meat that is a premiere symbol of the hunting which Jewish law prohibits?
Could it be that we are so disconnected from that which we eat that is no longer matters?
Or is this another example of how an increasingly successful kosher market reminds us that Jewish law never meant to deprive us of anything that wasn’t expressly forbidden?
What does this mean? You tell me!



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Comments read comments(16)
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eastcoastlady

posted July 9, 2008 at 12:14 pm


Mr. Hirschfeld,
Throw me a line here.
Why is hunting not permitted, as long as the animal is slaughtered in accordance with the laws of Kashruth? Is the animal any less dead (theoretically) caught and slaughtered in the wild, then raised on a farm or kept in a pen and then ritually slaughtered?
And if the meat is kosher, what makes it any less palatable (figuratively as well as literally) than cattle or chicken?
And why would elk be any less kosher than any other animal with split hooves and which chews its cud?
Why your hesitation to endorse the availability of elk?



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eastcoastlady

posted July 9, 2008 at 12:16 pm


Also – begging your pardon – no disrespect intended calling you “Mr.” versus “Rabbi”. My bad.



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Unpaid Intern

posted July 9, 2008 at 12:27 pm


I don’t even understand the question or assumption underlying the question — is it that elk somehow “should not” be kosher because the animal is hunted and thus “goyish”? Nonsense! Let’s try broadening our minds and our palates. Personally, I’m looking forward to elk chulent!



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Tzvi

posted July 9, 2008 at 12:47 pm


Its not the idea that its less or more kosher because its hunted. The rabbis of the Talmud even acknowledged that meed from ANY member of the deer family(elk included) is kosher provided that its slaughtered properly by a Shochet, provided that its lung tissue is examined, and provided that the animal is not injured prior to being Slaughtered in the Kosher manner.
Its not easy to raise Deer/Gazzelle/Elk, and I think its a good thing that its being raised commercially for Kosher Slaughter.



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Marian Neudel

posted July 9, 2008 at 1:44 pm


I had a really great bison-burger at a kosher grill last summer. This is not especially new news.



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Rabbi Brad

posted July 9, 2008 at 3:46 pm


Here’s the requested “line” for eastcoastlady:
If by “hunting” we include the humane trapping of an animal which causes neither major injury nor extreme suffering, then we could “hunt” an elk and slaughter it. But when I think of hunting, I think of guns and bows. And even accoring to the occasion Jewish legal writer who is of the opinion that hunting for sport is permissible, including I believe the Nodeh B’Yehuda, the hunted meat is not kosher.
I have no hesitation about the kashrut of elk, only questions about the relationship between the ability to stay within the letter of the law and still violate it’s spirit. It’s an old question and I am suspicious of those who have any easy answers to it.



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eastcoastlady

posted July 9, 2008 at 7:32 pm


Rabbi,
My original post no longer appears here.
Also, it seems you think I was being fresh. Not true. I was simply trying to gain an understanding.
So much is lost when translating from/into email/blogging…



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eastcoastlady

posted July 9, 2008 at 7:34 pm


never mind my most recent post about my original entry no longer appearing. I did not hit “view all”… It’s really been one heck of a day… sorry.



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rabbi brad

posted July 9, 2008 at 8:43 pm


sorry that it been a tough day and sorry that you thought i was annoyed by either the content or tone of your question. nothing could be further from the truth!
i loved that you asked for more information and loved your “throw me a line” line, which is why i answered directly in the comments space.
please keep your questions coming. even if i can not always answer directly, your ideas and those of other commenters will shape the content of windows & doors — and i look forward to that!



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eastcoastlady

posted July 9, 2008 at 9:33 pm


Rabbi,
Truly – you just gave me a huge smile and lift. Thank you!
If there’s one thing I’m good at, it’s asking questions…
I’m also tickled to have found your blog here. I was so disappointed when the Virtual Talmud column ceased to exist. I have seen your name associated with the CLAL and I look forward to reading your posts! I hope you choose to remain with bnet for the long term.



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Anonymous

posted July 10, 2008 at 12:55 am


My husband and I, though not particularly observant, (he would like to be more observant than I; I was never good at following rules!) keep kosher. He sees it as a daily reminder of our Jewishness and looks upon it as a small step on the path to spiritual purity. I look upon it as a way to avoid cooking meat, since it is so time consuming and difficult to deal with all thoses dishes and utensils in our relitively small kitchen! I have two horses, a sheltie puppy who goes with me everywhere (I have my own business, a feed store, and therefore, can take my dog to work with me)and share my husband’s cat. I love animals, according to my husband, far more than is seemly. Not surprisingly, I do not wish to eat them, though I will cook fish and occasionally eat turkey or chicken if it is served at a friend or relative’s home.
I believe kosher slaughter was created to remind people of the seriousness of killing an animal and also to prevent suffering. In ancient times, hunting was always bloody and horrible for the animal that was killed. Now, a good hunter can take down an elk with one shot. (Of course, too many of them are incompetent.) Now, most people are so far removed from the process that they forget the stuff in the packages once ran and played and had big, brown eyes. People eating kosher elk will regard it as a novelty but I doubt they will think of it any differently than they do a hunk of brisket.
I would not critcize anyone who chooses to eat meat. I don’t think vegetarianism necessarily makes one morally superior. I, however, like to see the deer wandering in the fields and prefer to think of elk running wild in Alaska. My dog can eat meat, he needs it. I will stick to Boca Burgers!



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LESLIE FURSETZER

posted July 10, 2008 at 11:19 am


ELK, WHY NOT? IF THE REQUIREMENTS ARE MET, LET IT BE. ?, DOES BUFFALO MEET THE REQUIRED LIST OF THE RIGHT STUFF, NOW RAISED OUT SIDE OF MINNEAPOLIS, MN. VARY TASTY AND LESS FAT THEN COWS. LESLIE



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LESLIE FURSETZER

posted July 10, 2008 at 11:46 am


PS YOU HAVE A LINK TO “THE TONIGHT SHOW” THEN WHAT DO YOU DO TO SEE THE CLIP OR WHAT EVER. LESLIE



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Michael

posted July 10, 2008 at 2:02 pm


I was in south Africa and met some Israelis checking out the area and seeing if they could make a goal of raising antelope (several species)and bringing them to slaughter, and marketing the kashered meat. Have not followed up on them. In some of the restuarants you can get wild game served as beef or pork.



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Robert

posted July 14, 2008 at 12:10 am


As long as the brand name isn’t “Bambi,” I can live with this.



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Geoff

posted July 14, 2008 at 9:54 pm


Perhaps someone can explain to me why hunting is/was not forbidden to the Tats (Caucasian Jews), some Iranian Jewish communities an other “Oriental” Jewish groups? This entire debate seems more enlightening as a lesson in the demographic, financial and political power of Ashkenaz-urban dominance than kosher dietary choice.



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