Windows & Doors

A Woman In The White House, But Not In God's House

Saturday September 6, 2008

Many conservative religious groups bar women from becoming clergy. And even in those denominations in which women do serve as clergy, they often face barriers in their careers because they are women. I was asked this week, if I think...
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Comments
eastcoastlady
September 6, 2008 6:07 PM

Rabbi,
If you are speaking about women in general being CIC, I have no problem with this.
If, however, you are talking about this woman, Sarah Palin, potentially being CIC,then my opinion is diametrically opposed. I find it staggering and enourmously frightenting that G-d forbid Mr. McCain get into the White House, and then G-d forbid even more that he die in office - well, the consequences are potentially too overwehelmingly negative to list here.

I found it very interesting when I saw an interview with the editor of Working Mother magazine (I used to subscribe but no longer do) about women's opinions of a mother of five potentially being elected VP and possibly POTUS. What I found most telling, and rather concerning, was that the question did not focus on what people thought of this individual having to "balance family and work", but that her being a mother of five in general was their concern, and a surprisingly large number of women think Palin should not have accepted the nomination simply based on her being a mother of a large brood.

Are we still in such a state in this country that we cannot imagine a father adequately providing the love, nurturing, and stability that we come to expect of a mother? Are we still fighting these battles over which is a better mother, the stay-at-home kind versus the needs/wants-to-earn-a-living kind?

And I can hardly wait for the concocted attacks (soon to be aired by the Republicans, no doubt) claiming Palin is being villified for being a mother and a woman.

And BTW, I don't have a problem with women being a spiritual leader, either. My cantor is a woman.

Michael Karg
September 7, 2008 5:02 AM

What I have to say regarding this subject may not be scholarly, but it will be matter-of-fact. Virtually every group of humans, from the Yanomamo of Venezuela and !Kung of the Kalahari, to the peoples of Iceland, the United States, China, South Africa -- anywhere there are cohesive human groups, and that is everywhere on earth -- one will find traditions, and specified practices, ways and means, rules and regulations specifically regarding the females of the group.

This specificity is due to both sexes recognizing that the female of our species possess a power the male has not, and will never have. The female need do nothing in order to possess this power, and additional physical attractiveness adds to the power -- Helen of Troy, etc.

The male of our species, regardless of any physical beauty, must also "do" something, to gain any power at all. Beyond merely being the stronger, physically, he must develope agility in order to produce something from his strength -- kill a mammoth for food and clothing, also shelter, for instance.

In more modern times, he must gain a place on a professional football team or, better yet, become a doctor, a lawyer, a CPA, a Bill Gates -- to even slightly equal the power of his opposite. Even if especially physically attractive, a Robert Redford may gain more power by developing his acting agility, as he has, and as have also his female counterparts. So, the sexes are never equal in power, the male never as powerful as the female.

Thus, until the human species evolves in such a way that the female loses her automatic power, this article's "maybe hypocracy, maybe not" has nothing to do with anything. And we will forever have these "adjustments" to ameliorate the situations deliniated. As long as we don't adjust them to our own peril, because we lose our minds as to what the whole thing -- life -- is about.

I think we have become so caught up in politics -- political agendas -- we have forgotten what we are.

Yoshiyyahu Hoffman
September 7, 2008 11:57 AM

Can you explain why some things are Kosher and others are not? Or, Can you explain why so manythings that have been commanded of us as a people(Jews) and as a nation (Israel). Besides anyone who understands what is Holiness and the importance of Worship according to Chalacha understands that leading worship is more important than leading a nation! Our worship is not dependent on the nation, but the nation is dependent on our worship! Who has license to change what G-d has comissioned? If G-d gave us the Jews the law that we possess to teach us to seperate from evil and to seek rightoeusness, then it is vitally important we do this exactly as he has said. Can we know G-ds thoughts are his was our ways? Can we be wiser than G-d to even question such a thing? If we do this then we are guilty of idol worship! If G-d is imutable and can not change, and His wisdom is infinite, then we would be wise to do as He has instructed clearly in the Torah! Otherwise we are just acting like Jews and being what G-d has appointed us to be! There are enough actors in Hollywood to contaminate the world we don't need to add to it, we just need to do what G-d has appointed us to do. Besides Devorah with Barack was a great Queen in Israel and a very great military leader as well, but never felt the need to lead a congregation! beside you are talking to someone who lived in Israel as a Isreali and not an American in Israel, and Israel is by far the most egualitarian society in the world, and yet there is not one Synagogue lead by a woman! Interesting? Nor do you hear any woman saying that they have the need to do so. The problem here is that people in the States have mixed liberal thought with the Torah and try to call it Judiaism, kinda like oil and water, looks good for a minute, but when it all settles it is the same old mess it was before. This is not a matter for us to tamper with, and there is no problem with a woman in the Whitehouse, just as Devorah was a great Queen in Israel.

Lucy Silver
September 7, 2008 12:39 PM

"Because those same people accept that in a democracy, political authority flows not from text but from the citizensof the state, they have no problem with women as political leaders..."

Rabbi, I might remind you that in the United Stats, the "citizens of the state' were defined by the constitution as free, white, and male. My great-grandmother was a part of the sufferagette movement before and during first World War and spent time in jail for her protests. Women have been citizens for less than 100 years.

The very special and important role that women have fulfilled, bearing and raising and educating children, taking care of husbands, cooking our nourishment, maintaining a sanitary and orderly place for living, etc. may now, perhaps, be shifting to domestic services for the privlidged who have money. Women now have access to any education they desire, medicine, law, business, etc. Their desire to serve in their professional cpacity depends upon access to nannies, housekeepers, private schools, and even cooks, chaufeurs, laundresses, etc. Even a middle class women in the United States most likely at least has someone to clean her house and "daycare" for young children.

These things makes the difference! Let's not forget the women of less furtunate means who have not had access to higher education or a career.Traditional religions which deny the woman to serve as congregational and spiritual leaders may do so because of a belief that women are valued in their role as preservers of the family and civilization. I have met many Orthodox women who do not feel at all inferior to men or mistreated. They sit separately, in the mehitzah, and lead what they perceive to be very fulfilled and relevant lives.

Of course women can perform religious leadership as well as men...and because the functions of caring for home and family are changing, I predict that the situation will open up for an Orthodox female rabbi!
The Catholic Church is a special situation because the Pope must speak ex cathedra to allow women to serve as priests; the church is dependent upon its history of male celibacy, etc, and it would take an extrordinary reason for an extraordinary pontiff to reverse 2000 years of "infaliblity."


LAURA MUSHKAT
September 7, 2008 12:46 PM

someone mentioned women balancing work and home and men seem to be able to accomplish it so why not us gals as well?

Anyway back to the subject.

I believe the reason some Christians do not want females in leadership roles in their churches is because they believe Jesus did not want that. Others disagree evidently.

Jews and others seem to do it out of tradition because of the fact that females ran the homes and being a Rabbi (which means teacher) would require other types of working. Thankfully in most mainline types of Jews this is and has changed. Can not speak for the Muslim or other religons in the world!

Politics is not the same in most cases unless the religon and the politics are extremly intertwined so the religous rules and traditions are carried over.

Not hypocrasy to me. Just another cultural way of looking at things.
hugs
Laura

Yoshiyyahu Hoffman
September 9, 2008 11:52 AM

Lucy I might even like you before all of this is over with! I loved you comments here! The word Husband comes from husbandtry..... which means to support nourish and instruct.... So if your husband is not supporting you... meaning helping with your task, including assistance in house cleaning.( I can just imagine Avraham leaving his socks in the livingroom floor and leaving to work the next morning without picking them up.) and supplicating you, which is to nourish, especially listening to your compliants, and helping to give instruction if not the principle instruction in the household.( yes, did n't you read that phase in the torah with Isaac when he told his son Jacob "go ask your mother I am busy right now!).....Well then he is not being a Husband! The idea that woman are to be only in the home is a dark age christian teaching. Just learn a little bit of history and look at Avrham and Sarah, she was his partner in the decision making process and as wel they both worked to serve the Angels who came to visit him to bring the news of Sarah to become with child. Much to be learnt...... further more Hashem only promises a blessing on the marriages who are together in these things....It is not good for man to be alone, who knows maybe even in the Whitehouse?

Chana Silverman
September 9, 2008 12:44 PM

A woman in the White House but not in G-d's House!
Seperation of church and State is fundamental in our Democracy - statement N/A. Women can serve/lead in the gov in any capacity.
Women in G-d's House - of course we are there - how silly to think we are not! Not always standing out in leadership - but our influence is mighty non the less. If a woman WANTS a clergy type role she can find a place that will accept her. Silly argument, just to push peoples buttons and get emotional discussons going. I think.

Eileen Murphy
September 9, 2008 1:05 PM

What is wrong with a strong woman governor in the white house? Are men so afraid of strong women? This is the year 2008 and whether it was Hillary Clinton or Palin, what difference does it make. The governor of Alaska has a strong family. Her daughter's pregnancy is family matter. The father should have been around for his daughter. I am tired of women in America being blamed for everything that goes wrong. I was the mother of 5, ran a 4 bedroom home, 2 jobs before my life in Florida was destroyed by an overdose of radiation in 1982. I lost my earning power and my health. I supported those 5 children because 2 fathers got away without supporting them. They lost their home in New york when they were 6, 3 and 1 week old because their father was allowed to give his wife a black eye at 8 months of pregnancy and take off and never support them again. The second father gave $25.00 a week for a baby and a 5 yr old and forced them out of their home and almost killed their mother with cancer. So wake up, some women are a hell of a lot smarter and qualified to run a country. We are in one bad mess thanks to 8 yrs. of Bush, Chaney and all their oil stocks. People are hungary, angry and want a change from Washington messes. This should be a democracy, not the dictatorship it has become. A mother of 5 and grandmother of 10.

BJ Banks
September 9, 2008 1:18 PM

Women like Golda Meir and Margaret Thatcher were [prime] examples that women are capable of leading a nation. These two women didn't have small children (and they were beyond their child bearing years). When you take on the responsibility of leading a country that obligation should take priority over everything else in your life. A mother with underage children is not going to put country first when [her] child needs her; I don't care if the father is standing [right] next to her.

chaim baruch-chaim
September 9, 2008 1:23 PM

I thought "God's House" was the Temple in Jerusalem whose loss is mourned each year on Tisha B'Av.

L'Shalom,
Chaim

Yerda M Berger
September 9, 2008 4:47 PM

I for one do not want this Woman Sarah Palin Or John Mc Cain for President or Vice President, This woman is evil and have you watched the video of her Church,it reminds me of the Jim Jones killing,and Mc Cain all he knows is war, and he has one bad temper, I will vote for Obama and Joe Biden ,they will get out country back on Track ,for the Love of God ,,don't vote for Mc Cain and Palin, they scare the heck out of me, Look at the jobs and homes that have been lost, Mc Cain won't help ,he will do more harm, he is in the Pockets of the Big Oil Co,and Mc Cain also wants to do away with social security ,he is another Bush, looks at the young men and women who were killed in Iraq or coming home disable, for the love of God do the right thing and Vote for Obama and Biden,

Renae Longbotham
September 9, 2008 9:01 PM

WoW!

Who was Queen Elizabeth one of the greatest rulers in the world!!!
woman have the ability of looking at both sides of the issue with less pride than what men seem to have ,,,after all there are more woman in the church than there are men Hmmmmmmmm
many of the first toys that are given to men are involving weapons (cowboys and indians)with little girls wanting to be nurses,doctors ect,,,
When pride gets in way there is usually war looming it's all about look how many guns I have look at how strong Iam.
It's refreshing to know that there is a woman out there that is not afraid to take on corporate america and all of the shadows of government,,,it reminds me of Sampson and Golioth!!
All we need is one person to change a nation.
Quite frankly I'm tired of people asuming that a woman cannot change a country afterall look at Ester she changed a nation and saved her people!!
Have we all forgotten the power that comes from upon high Christ Jesus our High Priest who can do everything and use anybody he wants to include what the world would say could be a nobody or even an uneducated fisherman perhaps have we become blind to see the big picture here on what our father is doing?


If all were created in his likeness and image then we are all capable of doing incredable things in his name ,,,,If he can take Joseph from a prison and put him second in command under Pharoah than he can do anything through anyone as long as they are a surrendered vessel in which he can work that includes being male or female period
It's really simple,,,,,Jesus


What an awsome Father we serve!!!!
Yashua the Messiah!!

Ambassador to Jesus Christ,
Renae

Debra
September 9, 2008 9:54 PM

I have a simple question;Why are so many people asking if Sarah Palin is qualified to run a nation? What about Biden? I don`t hear many people asking if Biden can run a nation.I have the answer!Because Sarah`s a woman! A little sexism going on there? I can`t wait for Sarah to debate Biden.She`s going to slaughter him.The good old boys are afraid .I say it`s about time.This is from a strong woman herself.--Debra.

Jeannie Taylor
September 9, 2008 10:53 PM

If women are so bad, why are they still living?

Lucy
September 10, 2008 12:24 AM

Women are just as capable as men at running a nation or a house of worship. Of course, not just anyone of either sex can or should be a world leader, but talent, intelligence is distributed equally between the sexes. For generations, women have been denied the opportunity but as attitudes change, more and more women will take on leadership.

Of course, they must be the right women, and I cannot believe that Ms. Palin is one of them. I state this not because she is the mother of young children (since fathers can and should be equal partners in childrearing), but because I find her views extreme. How could one woman tell another she could not terminate a pregnancy that was brough about by rape or other abuse? For most women, this would be tatamount to forcing them to suffer the rape over and over again for nine months. As a former teacher (now a small business owner who employs teenagers) I can also say that one can encourage abstinence, but it cannot be taught. Teenagers must already have those values that encourage abstinence and it helps if these are supported by the community around them. However, if they do not have them, teachers cannot hope to compete with the images in the media that encourage anything but abstinence and delayed gratification. One can encourage abstinence and teach about birth control since birth control is something most people will want to use even after marriage. (Obviously, abstinence only education did not work for her own daughter, and I am quite sure it was a behavior encouraged at home.)

I cannot help but be sickened by pictures of Ms. Palin proudly showing her young daughter the bloody moose she has just shot or sitting near a bearskin rug in her office. These poor animals do not count at all, I suppose. She even advocates ariel hunting, which is horribly cruel. I know many will say one cannot equate animals with humans, but this seems to reflect a rather heartless nature.

As to women being spiritual leaders, I absolutely believe they should be allowed to do so. I believe this strongly enough that I will not attend synagogues that do not allow women full participation. That is my choice and they have a right to their own choices. I cannot understand why other women accept it but, of course, I am not them.

SCOTT
September 10, 2008 2:23 AM

WELL SAID RENAE EXCEPT I THOUGHT HE WAS YESHUA(LISTEN TO MARY IN THE RECENT MOVIE) HA MESHIACH

SCOTT A MESSIANIC HEBREW; 1ST BORN SON OF SIDNEY, A VERY POOR PATERNAL ROLE MODEL OF JUDAISM G_d FORGIVE MY EARTHLY FATHER, AND PRAY YOUR GRACE UPON OUR GREAT UNITED STATES CREATED IN RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, ITS ELECTED LEADERS TO COME AND YOUR SERVANT AND HIS ADULT SON DANE.

john harry
September 10, 2008 8:57 AM

let me see if i have this right.there seems to be a lot of talk about sarah palin ,and her ablity to run this nation, just because she is a woman..right.. they dont think she can be the pres, mmmm ok now i got it, but something has gone wrong then because i thought it was john mccain who was running for the office of our nations leader mmmm,this must mean that everyone assumes that john is going to die in office and she will be the pres.i see... then this is good reason to vote for obama,because a lot of people think that joe biden would make a good pres,mmm,see what happens when u assume..or speculate to the abstract.. gd bless b'h'

eastcoastlady
September 10, 2008 9:40 AM

Oh, Debra, please, it has nothing to do with Palin being a woman that makes me unhappy with McCain choosing her.

It's her utter and blatant lack of qualification to be VP and potentially POTUS that makes me want to run screaming.

Further, some of her values are diametrically opposed to my own.

It's a cop-out, plain and simple, to reduce this to sexism.

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brad.jpg Author, radio and TV talk show host, and President of CLAL-The National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership, Brad Hirschfield is the author of You Don’t Have To Be Wrong For Me To Be Right: Finding Faith Without Fanaticism. Listed as one of the nation’s 50 most influential rabbis in Newsweek, and a regular commentator on Court TV, he is the creator of the popular series, Building Bridges, airing on Bridges TV, and the co-host of the weekly radio show, Hirschfield and Kula.

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