Prayer in Public Schools, But When?

Unfortunatly it is likely that a public school itself or a school system that allowed a moment of silence would sooner or later decide wouldn't it be nice if we had the school choir do something or have somebody say a poem that will sooner or later lead to a payer enviorment.

No their are athiest kids and others who this would not be a good idea for.

THIS BELONGS IN THE HOME.

You can have a moment of silence, pray as you wish whatever before you go to work or school.

Schools today are very hectic for the children from daycare right up thru highschool graduation and beyond and doing this AT HOME help. The schools would have to start earlier to accomadate this and this brings up problems of the kids getting there if they are not bussed and either walk or use public transportation. If it is early they may have to leave home earlier and not hear that the school is closed for some reason. Then their might be a problem of having to pay to open the schools earlier and start the heat or whatever early.

No-if it is not broke you do not need to fix it and it is not broke as far as this goes-IT IS NOT THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM'S PROBLEM WHEN IT COMES TO SUCH THINGS.

I disagree with you on this.

Hugs and Prayers
Laura

I agree with Laura: The public school is not the place for an officially sanctioned time for prayer -- even if the school officials do not try to influence its shape or content.

First off, there is no way everyone can be equally accommodated in such a setting. Some religions place a strong emphasis on actions that either accompany the words of prayer or largely substitute for them. There is no room in a moment of silence for those acts that are unique to a particular tradition, thus forcing a child to use the time set aside for prayer in a way that does not honor their own tradition.

Secondly, if parents place a negative value on religion, public institutions have no legitimate place trying to mitigate that. And if parents are fanatically faithful, public schools have no place either supporting that or moderating it.

Several of my Protestant Christian public school teachers in the 1960s and '70s, while observing the rules that absented prayer from the official school day, nonetheless stepped over the line in their very statement of what they truly believed to be tolerance of different belief: They frequently said, "I don't care what your faith/religion is, as long as you have a faith/religion." What legitimate place did such teachers have telling that, for example, to those children whose families, though not explicitly atheist, did not self-identify with any religious tradition and did not teach their children about God and other religious matters because their worldview was one which simply did not use religious discourse and categories?

Parents and parents alone have the right and responsibility for the shaping and support of their children's spiritual, religious, non-religious, or even anti-religious lives. They may choose among many possible ways to give their children what they believe is a suitable base in that belief/action system: through active membership in a religious community or organization; through teaching or training them themselves at home; through the example of their own religious practice and discourse; etc. And as long as the METHOD is not abusive, outsiders and official institutions have no right to interfere.

Because it is impossible, even for the well-meaning, to respect all parental choices equally while "supporting" religious belief or practice in the classroom or other school setting, public schools must remain "religion-free zones." And the parent who believes otherwise should do what is necessary to place their children in a private school that explicitly supports their positions.

L'Shalom,
Chaim

CORRECTION: I meant to say: I agree with Rabbi Hirschfield that it would be very important to ensure that a particular religion, or any religion at all, is **NOT** mentioned in any way.

Rabbi Hirschfield -

I think it's time to stop the train again and take another serious look at where we are going here.

To support a "minute of silent reflection" requires accepting an "all religions are equal" theology or a "no religion" stance. Neither of these positions agrees with what G-D commanded the early Israelites from whom both our faiths are descended, which was that all other religions were anathema to Him and their ways to be rooted out and not included in our worship. He was to be the "One G-D" and our hearts were to be set on Him to the exclusion of all others.

I have a hard time seeing how one can support a program which allows all religions to be considered equal or even a moment of silence supposedly separate from religion for the purpose of practicing privately a religion which the moment of silence isn't supposed to be connected to. Every time the early Israelites tolerated and coexisted with religions worshipping other gods, our G-D became angry.

Some-times I think we try too hard to be accommodating. In doing so we not only anger G-D but we weaken our own faith, and that of those we should be examples to - most importantly our own children.

By the time a child is able to understand what this mandated "minute of silent reflection" is for, he/she should already have been taught by their parents concerning G-D. At that point a "minute of silent reflection" goes contrary to those teachings as instead of being pointed to a specific and individual G-D they are instead being taught to accept all theories of all gods as relevant and equal. Instead of bolstering faith in an individual and specific righteous G-D this plan weakens it, and I can only see it as a satanic counterfeit designed to draw our children away and lessen the influence of the real G-D in their lives.

While I believe strongly in not discriminating against people over their beliefs, I think we are called by G-D not to be flexible reeds but strong oaks concerning our own beliefs. In promoting a generic "minute of silent reflection" we devalue our religion(s) to the value of the false G-Ds we are warned not to associate with or accept. Better religion should be taught & kept at home than accept such a thing.

Jeremiah

Although I am currently running a small business, I was a teacher in public schools for a several years, mostly at the high school level. For three years, I taught in a special school for emotionally disturbed adolescent boys. Most of them lived in group homes and had parents who were beyond disfunctional: one boy's father was in prison for murder and his mother was a gang member and drug dealer. The others were not much better so it is not surprising that the abuse most of them had suffered made plots from "Law and Order, SVU" look mild.

I write this because I discovered that these boys, who recieved gifts at Christmas (celebrated in the group homes) and had Easter egg hunts, had no idea what the holidays were really about. Most of them said they were Christian and believed in God, but with only three exceptions, they had no idea of the meaning of these holidays!

I was appalled at their lack of cultural knowledge, so as their English and history teacher, I decided I would teach them about some of the holidays. That particular year, Ramadan fell near Christmas and Hanukkah, so I did some research and presented lessons on all three holidays. The following spring, I covered Easter and Passover. My mother is Jewish, my father Christian, so my mixed background may make it easier for me to teach about different religous beliefs without discomfort and the students enjoyed the lessons and activities very much. It was also important for them, since in their ignorance, they had many rather nasty prejudices. Some hated Jews, one insisted that Catholics were not Christians and only one of them had a concept of the fact that all three religons were actually praying to the same God! My lessons ended up being observed by someone from the State, and he was quite enthusiastic about them.
My point is that in public school, students should be given information about religion without being told how or what to observe. A student who knows nothing of Christian belief will have difficulty understanding the symbolism in many novels he will encouter in high school or college and will have less insight into much of the history of the Western world. Eastern culture was also formed by their own belief systems and it is important for students to learn about their belief systems as well.
The boys I worked with were far more culturally deprived than the average student. Their struggles to find meaning in their lives and in the world will be greater than most. All I could offer was information. As for a moment of silence, I could see that such a thing might be used for good or ill. If religion itself were not mentioned, and students were asked to take a minute each day to reflect on how they could make their school day better, how they could improve something within themselves or in the world around them, it might actually be positive. Even better might be a journal, where students wrote for five minutes a day, making these thoughts concrete. Who knows, with proper encouragement, students might actually be able to set and reach goals such as, "I will complete my homework this week," "I will participate politely in class," or, "I will not bully Tom during lunch." It could make the school a better place!

Marian stole my line - I got to this column too late...
;-)

I can't see the use of a "moment of silence" in pubic schools, honestly. A young child would typically have no idea on what to "reflect", and an older child is more likely to typically be annoyed or just ready for the "moment" to be over so she/he can start the day or continue chatting with friends or cram in another minute of studying or do homework.

A parent should try to instill a sense of right/wrong/focus/etc everything else that a moment of silence is theoreticaly supposed to instill. At least, this is true in "normal" situations, unlike the sad scenario presented by Lucy. However I do agree with her assesment of difficulties faced by school teachers.

At the local school district here, each time there was a school board meeting, the chairperson would start the meeting by saying, "And now a moment of silence for the children of xxxxxxx." It sounded ridiculous, served no purpose, and all anyone did was continue to breathe for 10 seconds until the meeting resumed. It seemed put-on and pretentious. What purpose was it supposed to serve? No one ever knew.

We had prayer in the publis schools when I was a child, and we said the pledge of allegiance everyday before the flag as well. I wish that was still true of today! However I am not upset that it is not. Why because in raising my children I was faced with a reality that needs to be realized quickly in our day! As a phrase translated from Hebrew is like this "The significant education in life begins at the table!" Toomany families Jewish and Non-Jewish rely on the school, house keepers and religious institutes to educate their children. This is the real problem, not the prayer in schools! My children don't take a sip of water without saying the proper blessing. But they didn't get that in a religious institution, they got it at home. Our society is too busy with the things of less importance and this is the fruit that it bears. Bring the proper education back to the table! I see and comprehend of most americans it will be a major task just to get everyone at the table and for the father to have a relevant word to say anymore! Where have we drifted to and who is really responsible?