Sarah Palin, Jews for Jesus, Steven Waldman and the Jewish Vote

Get it right folks, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A JEW FOR "J"! These apologetic Jews get my fur ruffled and make our Righteous fathers sick! "Yeshku" would have never recognized this bunch anyway. He more or less kept the law and was in rebellion with the Rabbinical authorities of his day.
All the so called miracles that he was supposed to do where stated some three hundred years earlier by Hara Kirshna in his writings. If you really know much about the times in question, you would know that the govenors over the land in that time did not allow public gatherings of jews in more than ten men in one spot, and his so called miracles were performed under the eye of Roman garrisons! Yea! I really buy that! And above all in all of the records of the governors in the land no one person was ever crucified! And the Romans and the Nazis shared one thing in common, they kept perfect records! In fact every message to Rome was sent by three to be insured of its arrival. Besides they found Yeshku and his wife and his family all buried together in Israel more than three years ago! It is no wonder the "gospels came out of Macedonia where it was a common practice to crucify people. But the Sanhedrine and the Roman governors had a standing agreement that any Jew would only be put to death by the ways of Torah law, and crucificion is not one of those my friend. Jews for "J" no such thing!

I have no problems with Mrs. Sarah Palin. In fact I admire her! I hope she is as real as she sounds, she seems to be on a right track. However we need people in Washington who have a vision for this country and not just a bunch of Administrative fire stompers! We need someone to make this country a productive country again and not a pacifying consumption Giant! Who gives away it wealth to enemies and taxes the American people for it. I am for immigration, we need new blood to make a citizen pool of people who are really willing to work and make a living. Do as the German government did, let everybody buy a work visa, let them pay for the cost of immigrations. Not our tax dollars which should be going tot the structure of the economy! The last four terms in the White house have virtually made a socially dependent class of people with more than 30% benefiting form everyone elses work and taxes while the government is wiping away our constitutional rights and making new government positions everyday. If Mrs Palin likes to fight corruption she will find no problem in doing so! G-D help us return to the principles we had at one time, and turn this country into a producer and not just a consumer. Some question need to be ask and maybe she can do it! how is it that we have been overun by Islamic immigrants (some more than 40, 000,000) in Canada and the United States, when they are pronounced enemies of the United States and all that we believe in while our friends such as Israelis and Colombians are no so easily entered into the states? This and many more questions should be ask! Maybe she can do it because nobody else in Washington is wearing pants!

I strongly disagree with your assessment of Jews For Jesus. Their self presentation as another Jewish group notwithstanding, their goal is to make Jews into followers of Jesus. They dress it up into a manner they think will be more attractive to Jews, but ultimately, their aim is to destroy the Jewish people as such. Now, all that really means is that we should be on the lookout for them, and do a better job educating uniformed Jewish people about what it means to be Jewish, in all its variety. But if a potentially national politician expresses support for them, as apparently Sarah Palin did, we have to question what kind of relationship we want to have with them.

We had 8 years of economic prosperity, which George W(orst President Ever) threw away.

You don't know what you're walking about.

I tend to agree that we shouldn't push the "Jesus button" with Sarah Palin, but we also shouldn't have pushed the "reverse racism button" with Jeremiah Wright and Obama's church. People attend churches and synagogues, for that matter, based on a whole host of reasons that may have little or nothing to do with the beliefs or teachings that echo therein. What concerns me more are the personal values and beliefs of each candidate, as demonstrated by their words and actions. And the disconnect between Sarah Palin's avowed Christian faith and her actions and words seem far more troubling to me than anything else.

What Palin and conservative Christian Republicans seem to have forgotten as they complain about the unfair treatment she's receiving and knee-jerk reactions, is that they were doing the same with Senators Obama and Clinton, or standing mute while others lashed out with vile racist and sexist attacks.

Where was Governor Palin when conservative commentators were casually tossing the "b" word about in discussions about Senator Clinton? Why hasn't she chastised Rush Limbaugh - who has so graciously supported her - for his outrageous comments about Senator Obama?

All religions share some version of this teaching: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Even as Senator Obama defended the privacy of Governor Palin's family, she was lobbing sarcastic word bombs in his direction. This speaks volumes.

Look at the campaigns, the speeches, the words, the actions. Then choose your leaders accordingly.

Scott go back to flipping hamburgers! It is obvious you never worked in no government and are as guliable as a goldfish! Anyone who really understands government understands the country was in a shambles when Bush went in, and the prosperity you refer was not acuated in any way or policy of the Clintons! Sure George Bush senior threw away alot of foreign policy and opportunity, and the Clintons gave away any economic advantages we had while filling our country with potential terrorist and terrorist, and our Government is being run by commitees instead of elected officials (dah! wonder which party did that?) The import and trade agreements like NAFTA and other constituted during those economic prosperity years you refer to sold this country down the river! Go to Walmart and see how many US made products you can find! or better yet maybe if you go to Target you will eventually get to the Shiek sitting in France who really dominates things. I know you don't like to learn or study because if is obvious you listen to and only read the socialistic and lefty news media of this country. Just for your information, a point that would be good to learn! When a government like the US especially makes a policy change it does take as much as if not more than 5 to 8 years for you to see the full effect of those changes. Do a little math and think about it a little, it isn't like changing the oil in your car. And anybody who says he will break our dependency on oil in his terms is pitching words for real dummies. Because anyone who even halfway understands what comes from oil and oil byproducts knows that is a blantant lie and can only be done in 4 years by putting us in the dark ages again.

Lucy I am a Israeli and an American, I lived in Israel for 15 years served and devoted my life to the cause of a independent and secure State of Israel, and even know most of the Knesset members personally. Served far above the call of required duty, both for the United States and for the State of Israel. The evangelicals only contribute to themselves and not the state of israel, this is a political cast off used by secular Israeli politicians. They have companies such as Galtronics, Gal-com, and even tourist projects such as The Galilee Experience. This movement in Israel is nothing more that a business and not as it is represented in the news or politics here. You are as are many a victim of misinformation.
I am a Southerner and a 5th generation Virginian, I know better than anyone what is it to be told everyday you are going to hell because you are Jewish, and to scorned by any color or Religion. I literally crawled my way back to being a observant Jew. What is my point here? My point is that evangelicals can not convert of effect the first Jew if we learn Torah, and maintain Chalacha in our lives. In fact if we do this HaShem promises he will turn the heart of the ruler over us! I live and work in a area of very few Jews, however I am well respected and others (non-Jews) come to me for help and advice. Our biggest problem is not the evangelicals but our unobservant Jews who in turn allow the holiness that should be resting upon Israel as a people be sucked down by the other factions in this world giving them power instead. Assimulation has done what Hitler couldn't accomplish here in the States, but not due to evangelicals but rather unobservant Jews.

I have recently met some Jews for Jesus people, and am aware of the teachings. I am Jewish, but am open minded to learn about the teachings of Jews for Jesus. They are not to be feared or put down. Their Jewish holiday services are done in Hebrew, and are very long and inclusive of all the writings. We attended a Passover seder which was the best I've ever attended. They were not talking about Jesus, but performed a wonderful service which lasted for hours. They had all the symbols, and appropriate actions of a normal Jewish seder.
I think it is open-minded of the Palin's church to invite a leader of the Jews for Jesus group to their service, so that everyone can hear a Jewish person talking to them. I looked up the Jews for Jesus website, and they said, in bold red letters, that Brickner was misunderstood, and quoted that way.
Jews for Jesus people feel strongly Jewish and follow the Shabbat, and all the major Jewish holidays. They believe that Jesus was a Jew, and was the Messiah. That shouldn't threaten the ideas of Jewish people. Let them believe it, but don't be afraid. Jews for Jesus can't convert anyone, who doesn't want to believe it.

a few openers re Jews for Jesus: 1) look up Jews for Judaism. 2) Our Torah teaches that anything that contradicts Torah is not God's word. The so-called "Jews for Jesus" believe in original sin ( against our belief we were created in God's image); salvation by grace (against our teaching that our actions bless us); salvation through Jesus (against our belief in individual atonement)...and I could go on. As for using a Jews-for-Jesus sermon to justify spreading hate against Gov. Palin, it's as relevant, as useful, and as reeking of lashon harah, as attempts to criticize Senator Obama for having hung out with known terrorist criminals. It's the month of Elul, folks. Can't we focus on what heals?

Yoshiyyaunu-

When I visited Israel it was of no surprise to me that many of the tourist artificts were manufactured for Christian Evangalicals touring the Holy Land in the footprints of Jesus. Much of the information in tourism was given in terms of the time of the Second Temple and King Herod, the time of Jesus. It is very clear that Christian Evangalicals want to see Israel survive...for whatever reasons.

Israel, to me, is amazing because it is the only place in the world where Jews live as a majority and live lives as Jews, not as "outcasts" or "second citizens." I never want to lose that. I don't trust that Obama understands that.

The flipside is that Obama is popular among the Palestinians...I have a Palestinian friend in Ramallah who has indicated to me that Obama may be better-positioned to begin ending the impass between Israel and its Palestinians. I'm having a difficult time weighing McCain's traditional, Evangalical-type support and Obama's ability to fencewalk between his Muslim background and his "doublespeak" to Jews.

If we want Israel to survive, whatever we have been doing hasn't worked. Something different has to be done to break the worsening impass between Israel and its Palestinian population.

Yoshiyyaunu,

Since you are incapable of responding without personal attacks, you are not worth responding to.

I don't know why Chana hates Mort Klein.

Going as far back as 1992 and most recently in the case of Barack Obama, Zionist Organization of America national president-for-life Morton A. Klein has insisted that a candidate for national public office should be held responsible for their church/pastor's political views. GOP Vice-Presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin is a creationist and Pentecostal Christian who grew up in the Assemblies of God church. That denomination has long been the largest institutional financial supporter of "Jews for Jesus" and similar evangelical missions expressly targetting Jews. That means that, no matter what politically-convenient or disingenuous statements she may make to AIPAC or similar groups, by definition, as a matter of principle, theology and dogma, Palin has nothing but contempt for rabbinic Judaism and the highest regard only for those Jews who have betrayed their ancestral faith by converting to Christianity. Thus sayeth the Klein doctrine.

Chana-

Jews, as a group, have been wedded to leftist groups, ranging from communist, to socialist, to left-wing Democrats. I understand how this came to be; Judaism has always sought social justice, which left-wing organizations initially promised. It is unusual to meet someone who has gravitated to a different position. I have been fearful that being more conservative might betray my Jewish heritage. I have studied Obama's ties in Chicago, discovering that he has deep roots with Palestinian groups and Farakan. I don't think he truly identifies with Jewish values, save those who, like Saul Alinsky, transferred their Jewish heritage to left-wing organizations. In fact, Obama directly followed Alinsky to Chicago. That is what Palin referred to when she spoke of Obama as a "community organizer."

It just might be that left-wing social and political organizations have substituted for real, hard core Jewish religious practice. Jews just might have bitten themselves in the foot. I believe in social justice, of course, but perhaps we need to take a new, fresh look at exactly how that might be achieved.

Wow. Where did all these people come from?
Who cares about the JJ crowd. They make for interesting stuff on public access TV. Back in the day, we confronted them in the streets, and beat the snot out of them when required.
Since I live in a free country, the Evangelicals can do what they want. Just make sure they spend their money in Israel.
Social justice has become nice codeword for reform and conservative jewry, who cannot seem to get their members to come to synagogue for any other reason. Just another modern substitution for hashem.

Good answer or rather cop out Scott! Maybe next time before you tell someone (You don't know what you are talking about) who has actually lived and put their butt on the line so you can sit and listen to the leftist broadcast you base your opinions on without fear of being locked up for what you think!
Go and get a book written by some reputable Rabbi and look up as well what is Laschon HaRah (suggestion is Chafetz Chaim)and once you have learned the definition of Laschon HaRah then maybe you should refer to it! Oh, and when you have to deal with terrorist face to face maybe your prospective will become a little more realistic! You know what I mean! Maybe if you enter the world to come soon enough you can explain to the some 14,000 Israelis and the victims of 911 who died at the hands of terrorist about how we spoke a little harsh concerning these matters! But I must warn some of them were my comrades in arms and they wouldn't take your opinion to lightly. I am amazed at how broad minded some people think themselves while forgetting the basic principle that all of Israel is one.....all of the generations, that were, that are here, and that are to come...Isolated thinking from an arm chair is a very dangerous threat to the very life of the Jewish people. Amelek is still alive and he hides his face behind anything he can find whether it be a jew for "j" or an Islamic terrorist. Not to properly identify those who are Amelek would only reproduce the disasters of the 1930's all over again!

Meant to say " And not voting for or supporting Candidates who support terrorist....."

This is the last time I will ever respond to you:

I was at the Trade Center on 9/11. I took a 10" piece of steel in my back. I was laying a pool of body parts and blood.

Now EVERY day is 9/11 for me and will be forever.

Do NOT call me a leftist and do NOT tell be I do not know about terrorism.

The Reps have Sarah Palin and the Dems have Nancy Pelosi. So what's the difference except Pelois is nastier and more shrill than Palin?

Did the Dems speak up for Israel in the recent War? No.

Did the Reps support Israel? Yes.

Did the Dems have one of the grand ole leaders, (Yes Jimmy Carter), blame Israel? Yes. Did The Reps do the same? No.

Did the Dems fight agst the Surge in Iraq? Yes.

Did the Reps fight agst the Surge in Iraq? YES for years and years, Rumsfeld-Cheney-Bush held troop levels treasonously low, but McCain did complain. Finally as a last ditch Hail Mary play, the Reps cut back a tad on the war profiteering to Haliburton etc. and did the Surge. After the Surge worked, did the Dems have the basic intellectual integrity to admit it? NO. (That's where the Far Left pressure on Obama may have cost him the election.)

Obama is clearly brilliant -- maybe a political genius as Bill Clinton use to be -- but he is a captive of the Far Left and the Far Left positions Obama as a panty-waist sissy. McCain is captive of the Far Right. We know that that means.

When the Independents have to decide between a Frightened Apologist for America's Right to Exist and the militaristic McCain, they will over look the Far Right bigotry of Sarah Palin What good are civil rights if you're dead? THe Dems never said, "Better Dead than Red."

I am voting for Obama but I have a special reason. Being Gay, I know that the Dems are pandering to Gays by their platform plank to repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell. We've been down that road before, but I prefer to vote for the candidate who panders to me than for the candidate who villifies me ..... and even then, I still may be forced to vote for McCain-Palin because the Far Left is even more scary than the Far Right. If Obama cannot break free of the Far Left, he does not deserve to be President.

Yoshi,
You sound very angry all the time.
Some of your posts also smack of sinat chinam.
Some of us less observant Jews are just as good as you, though it seems you don't believe that is so. That's insulting and frightening.
Words and attitudes like that will never bring Moshiach.

Sarah Palin's church has an ideology that is soooo anti-Jewish (there is a long record) and steeped in radical extremist Christian fundamentalism. Forget the Jews for jesus stuff (Palestinian violence is punishment for failure to accept jesus), there are other more problematic concepts like the fact that Israel must be destroyed in an apocalyptic war order for Jesus to return, just a small problem. Republicans will gloss over this 7 ways to shabbos. She is a trojan horse, a proverbial fox guarding the henhouse. Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware).

Are there any Jews running for the whitehouse in this election? No? Don't both the presidential and both the vice presidential candidates profess Christianity? Are we not taught in K'tuvim that Adonai says, "By me kings riegn, and princes make just laws. By me princes govern, nobels too, and all the earths rulers. I love those who love me, and those who seek me will find me."? Then why do we (Jews) insist upon trashing Christians who profess to be seekers of Adonai? I say it is because we have forgotten to whom we belong, and for what purpose we have been created. Mikhah says in the Nevi'im, "So listen now to what Adonai says . . . 'Human being, you have already been told what is good, what Adonai demands of you - no more than to act justly, love grace and walk in purity with your G-d.'" So, I ask you, are we, by engaging in Laschon HaRah, acting justly; are we lovers of grace who speak Laschon HaRah against one who seeks Our Soveriegn; and how pure is our walk with G-d if we are engaging in Laschon HaRah?

Dear EastCoastLady,

It is not I am angry, but that we are in a war.... Islam and other terrorist have declared war upon us! If some of don't realize that don't make it any the less true. When you have spent the best part of your life being shot at and defending the freedoms and rights which I see a blantant unaknowledgment of in the opinions being floated here, well it is only when you speak directly do people seem to begin to grasp this is alot more than I am hearing from the leftist media and the specials I see on CNN or HBO.
Let me ask you a question, If I may and then you may begin to realize how absurd all of this really is: If you knew nothing of a matter and they tell you have two people to listen to, One who is a broadcaster who has never been in the place where his is talking about, only reading script, and doesn't really know if the person who edited this script knows anything about it either and doesn't know the reporter either. But best of all has never been to that country, doesn't know anyone from that country either. But you should listen to him because he is the "media" on the other hand we have this individual who has lived there most fo his live, served in an important position in the military there, worked with these people in and out of uniform, done business with them as well as interrogated their terrorist, feed their children lived along side of them, and has been threatened by these same people with death threats and ect. ect. ect., but he is not conected with a liberal university or with the news media. But he did witness many of the events first hand we a re talking about...... Now who would you choose to listen to? Your choices are made clear by your attitudes and opinions. As must societies it is more comfortable to believe a lie that to believe the truth and have to make changes and deal with it.
Beside Sinat Chinam is hating with out reason, this is not without reason! In fact just as we are supposed to be merciful and compassionate to all others we are to also identify our enemies and to seperate from evil and do righteousness! This is the outward responsibility of a Jew. You cannot lay in a pig pin and put on purfume and expect to come out smelling good! So just as much as we are to do good we are to identify and recognize our enemies. If I were to follow some of the thoughts here I would just send roses to everyone in the world and then we would all have a nice rosey world for one day! HaHaHa. And no Mrs Stein is not the same person I am, but it is good to see someone esle has met a little reality in their life.

Rabbi...
First let me offer my condolences to your wife on the passing of her father.
Secondly, thank you for your words of wisdom and tolerance regarding Sarah Palin's having listened to a lecture for Jews for Jesus.
I found myself this summer in Aspen listening to many sides and differing opinions on a whole host of subjects....which certainly didn't mean I agreed with the subject matter just because I was in the audience.

This Lady scares me!

I'll feel better when Sarah looks into the camera and declares that she really understands: The Flintstones was not a documentary!!

Palin Rocks!

Why has this not created the same amount of media frenzy for the McCain camp, as the Jerimiah Wright sermons caused for Obama? Liberal Media indeed ...

One of the greatest risks to our nation and the Western World is the rapid and sometimes rabid destruction of our culture. Our Judeo/Christian roots are being destroyed by a systematic attempt to undermine all religions: essentially pit people of faith against one another leaving a void that only secular atheism will attempt to fill. That is really one of the goals of radical Islam. We must be willing and able to identify it, name it and reject it for what it is. There is great danger for total misunderstanding and misrepresentation of anyone's faith when we rely on simplistic sound bites or face value judgments. Most religious faiths go much deeper than that. To take either a religious practice or item of faith, regardless of verification that a person subscribes personally to that item, and make it subject to popular media review without background of understanding only foster distrust and division and serves the wrong master. As a relatively small group of people, as numbers go, Jews will fair best when they re-discover their own deep and truly God given faith and when Christians do likewise. History has shown us the horror of faith lived in the shallows or not at all. We need to encourage one another in deeper faith and mutual respect. Sarah Palin's deepand abiding faith in God is her best asset. When each of us struggles, albeit clumsily, to live up to our human identity as children made in the image and likeness of God and acknowledge our dependence on God we cannot lose - not a one of us no matter what religion or doctrinal bent.