When Are We Dead?

In relation to the issue of when life begins that came up not long ago in Windows and Doors, I opined that on our planet life began on once in the distant eons, in that epoch when the non-living chemical soup spawned rudimentary life. Since then all living things/beings share in that same life. Life does not begin at any point for the individual. Sperm and egg are already alive with the life that flows from time immemorial.

The other side of that is that life does not end with any individual death. We trim our toenails and slough off dead skin cells, but our individual life does not end. Likewise, our individual lives are sloughed off but the greater life of which we are a part continues. As long as our planet is not made totally inhospitable to life, as long as some living thing survives, death has not occurred and the shared life of us all continues.

This grand schema does not answer the medical-ethical questions like those surrounding Motl Brody. But it gives us a sound basis for thinking about those issues. Life and death are much bigger than we generally admit. The result is that we make broad pronouncements based on things we don't understand at all.

L'Shalom,
Chaim

It's funny that this comes up. Basically, if you have the money, you can be alive for a much longer period of time than not. If you are poor, things like Texas Advance Directives Act are imposed on you and get unplugged showing signs of no life, a little life or a lot of life but just not enough money to keep it going. So I guess the answer is that death comes when you can't afford to live. Right now I am having enough trouble paying attention.

Dear Yosef,

Much ink has been spilled and little agreement reached about the definition of what constitutes and Orthodox Jew, I offer you two brief approaches to answering your first question. The first is purely sociological. It understands anyone to be Orthodox, who is accepted as such by a critical mass of other people who are themselves seen as Orthodox.

The second definition of Orthodoxy would probably include a life that is based on the authority of Torah and the performance of mitzvot (commandments, not just "good deeds" as the word is often translated), both of which are expressions of divine will for the Jewish people.

The brain death controversy hinges, in large measure, on the p'sak (ruling) of Rabbi Moshe David Tendler and his understanding of like rulings by his late father-in-law, Rabbi Moshe Feinstein of blessed memory. By no means do all Orthodox Jews agree with his conclusions, but many do. My interst lies in respecting the understanding of each side in this ongoing debate. Thanks for you questions.

When is one considered dead. It is my conclusion that when the brain is dead or brain wave gone, that person has ceased to be.

Think of the brain as like a computer tower and the heart like electricity. When he the tower ceases to function, all the electricity going into will not make it work any longer. One might as well toss it. However there might be parts of that computer that one might be able to harvest. The memory section might be able to be used in a like machine.

Likewise there are parts of the human body that might be harvested for the use in someone else.

About forty years ago my mother was strickened with what we now call an aneurysm in her brain. She never regained conscienceness, nor did the doctors expect her to. She lived (breathed) for 11 days before pneumonia set in and evenually killed her. No attempt was made to revive her as the doctor just said, she would never be the same. They ran an object across her feet and hands and got no respond. When she did open her eyes briefly, they looked like road kill staring out blankly and expressioness. I saw that same look in pictures I saw of Terri (Schervo)? the Florida woman a few years back. And the only thing we as a family could do was wait for the inevitable. My mother's heartbeat was strong and up until the pneumonia set in so was her breathing. But for all intents and purposes she was gone. She was only 37 years old when this happened.

Let's face it, we will all have to leave this world someday, and for the most part we will not have any say in the when and in most cases neither the how. When death taps one on the shoulder, it is already to late to protest. And in cases like my mom, even if we had been millionaires and lived in today's society with all the fancy equipment, it wouldn't have made much difference. It would have delayed us saying that final goodbye, but still......

rabbi brad
you quote rabbi tendler who's psak is based on "His understanding of his father inlaw's psak" most other poskim disagree on rabbi tendlers
understanding og hagoan reb moshe ztl's tshuva on the issue
todays accepted orthodox gedolim are all in agreement "pulling the plug" is tantamount to murder
though their are allowances to sign the DNR

As a nurse, I feel for the family in this situation. But I can also see where the hospital is coming from. There is no electrical activity in this child's brain stem whatsoever; this is not a debate about whether or not he's a vegetable. He's far beyond that at this point. Legally, he is dead. His heart and lungs aren't "working"; his heart is "beating" thanks to a cocktail of strong drugs, and his lungs are being inflated by a ventilator. His heart isn't beating any more now than it would if I stuck my hand in his chest and squeezed it to circulate blood myself. His brain tissue is even beginning to decompose; Marriea alluded to organ donation, but at this point he's been dead for so long that his organs wouldn't be suitable anymore.

The care that this child is receiving is incredibly expensive. Insurance won't pay for it. And the most important thing to consider, in my opinion, is the fact that this child is taking up a bed and other resources (doctors, nurses, equipment, etc.) that a living child could be using to receive life-saving treatment. THAT is why continuing to provide care to a legally dead child is medically unethical.

What should have happened here is for the hospital staff to sit down with the family...preferably with an Orthodox Jewish doctor, nurse, and/or administrator (there have to be some somewhere!)...who could compassionately but honestly lay out the situation and come up with a way to withdraw care that would be acceptable to the parents' religious beliefs. But now that lawyers and lobbyists are involved, the tone has changed completely; it may be too late to change it. I'll be praying for this little boy and his family.

Selfish doesn't even begin to describe this circus. Enough already. Our pets can die with dignity and decisiveness, but not humans. Prolonging this kind of no-quality-of-life accomplishes nothing but postponing grieving & denying the family's long overdue ability to move on. These parents must have $ to burn. They are also increasing costs for everyone else in their health care plan, the hospital, other patients, etc. Selfishness strikes again! Maybe they are related to Terry Schiavo's parents?!?! Same mentality....clinging to hope when there ain't none.

IMO, and considering the Jewish definition of death, If the child can't breath on his own, after an attempt to help him if need be, he has fallen asleep in death. I personally believe he continues to exist, just not here under the sun. King David, gives us a good example of letting go, when his first child with Bathsheba died.

2 Samuel 12:21-23 KJV Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. 22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Read the Bible about Euthanasia.

The family and their rabbi should consider what effect this has on a hospital's acceptance of a seriously ill person who holds extreme religious end of life beleifs.