“Only when religious leaders like Abu Qatada are preaching to empty halls, will we be successful. And that demands more than reactive prosecution. It requires proactive initiatives which provide equally compelling alternatives to those over whom Abu Qatada currently holds sway.”
No offense, Rabbi, but you state the obvious. Exactly what are those proactive initiatives you support in the UK?

As long as there is Islam Imams will have followers to preach to. Not all muslims are filled with hate and terror in their hearts, but too many are. The hate filled ones will always see the western world, especially jews and christians as the enemy. they want total illimination of Israel and total dominance over everyone else. I say the only way to deal with this extreme hate is extreme measures.

Robert, in my experience when people say things like “no offense” it is because they know, deep down, that they are being offensive. But none was taken by me. And since you raise the issues, I would caution your assuming that what I have said is so obvious. If it were, we would see the kinds of proactive initiatives which I suggest.
There are many that could work, and I alone can not provide them all. Though I think it’s very kind of you to suggest that I can. I will offer one idea that I believe is critical and it has to do with making real investment in the training of relgious leaders who already believe or are open to the idea that intellectual and cultural openess are more than social necessities — that they are expressions of deep religious ideas within the tradition they love.

Rabbi Brad,
It’s hard for me to think of a major organized religion, at least in this country, that is making any investment in leaders/teachers/clergy who are intellectually, religiously, or culturally “open”.
They’re too busy trying to convince the world that they’re “right” and that therefore, others must be “wrong”.
No openness there.

I like your ideas, Rabbi Brad. We’re only fooling ourselves if we think that imprisoning one bigoted leader will wipe out bigotry. We do need to reach out to other groups. Synagogues, churches, mosques, should practice more cultural exchanges with each other. When we open ourselves up to each other, we find out that there is much to like!

Along the same lines as Rivka’s comment–One thing we can do is reach out worldwide to those exponents of Islam (and I do believe they are the majority) who do not espouse hate & violence, even if it means going places we might otherwise avoid. See, for instance, my rabbi’s blog from his current trip as a peace ambassador to Iran .

Good morning,
I, personally, feel that there should be more openness among the religions. If one looks at the basic belief systems of the three great Monolistic religions, Judiasm, Christianity and Islam, one sees so many similarities.
I am blessed to have friends in two of them and wish I had friends in the third.
It is my belief that we all must band together and stand for what is right and true and try to shine a little light in this very sad world.
If we don’t, who will?

Many years ago there was the belief that if Iraq were freed from tyranny, then a free democratic state would emerge. That state would show Muslims that they had an alternative to the thugeries and religious fanatics. As a aresult, Iran’s mullahs would be quietly overthrown, the Palies would turn away from Hamas and Hezbollah, Syria would have to make peace with Israel, Jordan would not longer be intimidated, Egypt could liberalize. In short, the young Arabs would have a viable alternative to the thugeries and religious lunatics like Arafat and the Taliban.
Unfortunately, grossly corrupt and hideously incompetent men (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld to name a few) attempted to implement the plan to dry up the swamp feeding Arab terrorism. Diverting billions of dollars to Haliburton, Blackwater, etc. was more important than deploying adequate military resources. Of course, bsing the entire War in Iraq on lies about WMD’s was grossly stupid.
Thus, Rabbi Brad’s idea of removing the audiences for lunatic religious zealots was sound, but the implementation corrupt and incompetent. Not satisfied with blowing the War on Terror, the Bushies then destroyed the United States economy, and whether we have a world wide depression is still unknown.
The two common denominators with both the War on Terror and the Economic Disaster are (1) Corruption and (2) Incompetence. As we have seen with this Administration, one of the strongest forces promoting Corruption and Incompetence is religion. This Administration is perhaps the most religious Administration ever and the most Corrupt and Incompetent ever (including Harding and Grant).
Rabbi Brad, however, persistently enforces the idea that we need more religion in public. He wants Obama to lead some type of national religious rival. The first step to climbing out of this morass of Corruption and Incompetence is to remove all religious BullSh*t from public life. Only a religious nut like George Bush, who had Faith that he was doing G-d’s work by invading Iraq, would think he didn’t need to bring full military with him. It would have been far better if W had prayed at the Temple of Colin Powell and his Doctrine of Overwhelming Force than indulge himself in the fantasy that we would be met with flowers and hoshannahs. If one were to reduce the failure in Iraq to a single factor, it would be W’s FAITH as a born-again Xian.

Rabbi,
A sort of distantly related question if you have the time: Recently following a blog (somewhere, but not, I think, here)relating to the Rabbinic tradition concerning the Messiah, an answering blogger posted this:
“Also you don’t have to fear the Jewish messiah because UNLIKE Jesus he will not kill all the non-Christians and send them to Hell and UNLIKE al-Mahdi he will not murder all the non-Muslims as infidels.”
Although of the Christian tradition — although not especially devout about it — I was not familiar with this point of view and was at first taken slightly aback. On reflection, however, I find a good deal in traditional Christian teaching that gives the idea of Jesus-as-bad-guy considerable credence.
I this view of Jesus mainstream opinion in the Rabbinic community and/or in the community of Jewish intellectuals in general?

Rabbi-
You most certainly can prosecute and convict people for obvious crimes…theft, murder, rape, extortion, blackmail, drug trafficing, illegal entry, etc. The line where it is possible to prosecute for spreading lible, hatred, or even a very ugly truth, remains unclear.
Do not imagine that the halls will be empty when people preach hate. Hatred will always exist, and there will be plenty of people who will listen to those who advocate it. The right wing radio and blogs in this country are filled with statements that scream with hatred towards Islam; they honestly believe that wiping out Islam is our only protection. And they are now terrified because their “free speech” will most likely be censored by the new Obama administration. The sad fact is, that is their truth. They live in fear of attack and extermination. Hatred ignites those who are unhappy. It breeds fear. It builds a herd-mentality. It solves nothing. The issue of when it must be silenced is huge. My Rabbi, Sam Gordon, fought the blasphemy being spread about Obama, and insisted that whatever was said and believed about Obama was at least based in truth.
We can disagree and can admit that sometimes the truth is ugly. We cannot hate the truth, but simply acknowledge it. The problem is perception. As the extreem right in this country believes in imminant danger, extreme Islamist believe their truth–the infidel, Jews. and Westerm norms are destroying their world.
Lucy

Sorry, Again I forgotn my name.
Lucy

Well Rabbi say/do what ever?
Make sense on nonsense is only acceptable if it is coming from you people.
Just roam free. Bravo…
Done a great job of convincing the west and USA of whatever you say/do is ok. Rest of the world should learn some lessons from you.
Good Job my friend good JOB!

Ben Hall:
Although I am obviously not the rabbi, I have some observations about your comments. The concept of Jesus as the Bad Guy concerns me. I do not think Jews ever think of Jesus as the Bad Guy. I suppose one reason we do not think of Jesus as bad is that we don’t think he said any of the nasty stuff like I am the only conduit to G-d. To me and other Jews I know, Jesus is merely a victim of later “evil-doers” like Paul, the many authors of the Gospels, the Church, the Reformation, etc., who decided to put vile non-Jewish concepts into Jesus mouth.
Thus, we know that this foolishness about Jeeeeezuuus being the only path to Salvation (a nonsense idea in Jewish tradition)did not originate with Jesus, but was a later invention to advance the political aspirations of early Xians.

To all: Jesus never killed anyone, nor did he intend his followers to kill anyone or to teach hatred of anyone. Have Christians killed? Have Christians hated or taught hatred? Sure. So have Jews. I don’t blame G-d for them, don’t blame Jesus either.
It seems that there may be teachings in the quran that encouraged the murder of infidels (nonmuslims) but there have never been any such teachings in the Old or New Testament.
Let’s stop spreading hatred, OK?

“Only when religious leaders like Abu Qatada are preaching to empty halls, will we be successful.”
That is so true.

Scott and Your Name:
Thank you for your comments on my question. The results of my researches are in total accord with your thoughts. Textual and other studies of the New Testament make it clear that it is virtually impossible to know what specifically Jesus said after centuries of translation, editing, accidental mis-copying, and conscious alteration to fit a preconceived view and shore up a doctrine already in place when even the canon of the NT was “officially” decided upon.
I’m reminded of a scene in “Angels and Demons” in which one character asks another what he thinks about God — not what he thinks of what men say about God. Worthwhile question in re Jesus as well.
Thanks again.
Ben Hall

Textual and other studies of the New Testament make it clear that it is virtually impossible to know what specifically Jesus said after centuries of translation,
But why stop with what Jesus might have said? The same could be said about Moses, David, etc of the Old Testament. Jesus was a Jew too, so it might benefit us all if Jewish scholars can unearth what Jesus “actually” said.

Dear Toto,
Yes Dear Toto we Jews have vast records of what every Jew has ever said from the very second Abram became Abraham.
Here’s what our records show. Jesus said, “I am not the way. I have no special connection with G-d. All Jews — all men — are equally holy in the eyes of G-d and no man needs to be saved. Pass the matzah.”