Have you ever looked at the logic of the Holocaust deniers? It often goes something like this.
Jews claim that 2 million Jews were killed at Auschwitz. But if you go to the site and measure the ovens and calculate how many bodies could have been burnt, it was simply impossible for more than 1 million Jews to have been killed at Auschwitz.
The calculation ignores the fact that half the crematoria were bombed and no longer exist.
And so it goes, on and on. There is a kernel of fact in Holocaust denial, usually. Facts inconvenient to the Holocaust denier simply get ignored or denied. So they can make their cases.
I think the only way Holocaust denial will eventually go away is that these people, however loathsome their message, are reasoned with and calmly, cooly, factually corrected. If they show some other motivations that truth in the discussion (perhaps further into the discussion than many might imagine), that is useful in discrediting them.
And somebody should have a talk with the Pope, too. So much for infallibility.

Growing up Catholic, I was very disappointed to hear about this, it seems so ill-informed. People need to be realists before they can move forward and grow in life. I would urge anyone to do their own research and realize these holocaust deniers are ignoring the truth.

It hurts, because we thought we had built a friendship with the Church.

It is a very sad situation. It tells me that the church condones the holocaust, or even denies it, by lifting Williamson’s excommunication. This pope is German, and so what do you expect. For thousands of years everyone has been trying to kill Jews and wipe us off the face of the earth. Or convert us. It will never stop. Over 2 million children and babies were murdered by the Nazi’s in the camps. They were the first to be gassed and burnt in the ovens. And there are still people out there that believe it was okay.
How can Jews build a relationship with the church when they are such hypocrites. I apologize to Catholics but I can’t help it. I know the anti-semitism will never stop. Look what is going on in the middle east.

These people will never change, they are rooted in the past and will never get rid of their hate. They make ashamed to say I am a catholic.

The damage has been done to Jewish-Catholic relations with the above mentioned acts. Still, it is important for we Jews to focus on the majority of Catholics who abhor these acts, are willing to deal with the past with honesty and hunmility, and are standing up for what is right. They deserve our respect and trust.

Anti-semitism is the glue that keeps christianity together as it is a cult based on falsehood…and not a religion…just a money grabbing scheme.
Read “The Crime of Christendom ” by Fred Gladstone Bratton..A book about the theologic basis of christian anti-semitism…Fred Bratton was a christian clergyman and told the truth.
Also, another book “The book your church doesn’t want you to read ”
by Tim Leedom…Curious title, but very enlightening.
Both are available from Amazon…

Thus the reason for my own conversion to Judiasm. This pope is a bit scarey.

There are Popes, then there are buttholes with authority. That is what makes him scarey

“yes, i agree…christianity is based on myth…”
All religion is based on myth. If religion were a literal truth there would be only one.
Homo Mysticus

True enough…
and don’t forget that hitler was a baptised catholic…
and his henchmen were mostly catholic or lutheran.

“Don’t forget that Hitler was a baptized catholic…”
Religion continues to be a valuable tool in controlling and manipulating the masses, righteous killing in going on in the Middle East as we speak. If the right wing in this country continues to have its way, Israel will be in a perpetual state of war until Yoshka comes. It’s a perverse notion that Israel has used to in turn manipulate the right wing for its own gain. And so it goes!
Homo Mysticus

“and so it goes”. and don’t forgot how the muslems cheered on 9/11/01

“mexico
January 27, 2009 11:47 AM
“and so it goes”. and don’t forgot how the muslems cheered on 9/11/01″
Some Muslims not all! As did some Christians and Jews.
Homo Mysticus

Back to the original question.
“Is the Pope right? Is the Pope wrong? Could he be both? ”
Who cares?
Homo Mysticus

Once upon a time there was a Church that sanctioned torture and murder. This Church believed it was its God? given duty to rid the world of heritics and witches. So this Church sent soldiers? into the counrtyside to take up the banner of the Lord? and declare a Holy War? upon the unbelievers.
Later there was a man who set himself up as the proclaimed leader of Germany. One of his tennets was that he and his choosen race, were superior to everyone in the world, especially Jews, although other religions, were also included, such as Catholic. This leader encouraged his followers to murder those that the leader deemed inferior.
I don’t want to sound critical, but what goes around comes around. The Catholic Church has much to answer to God for. This is just another example of the close mindedness of many religions.

In my City Newspaper this morning there was a small article in reference to this. The article stated,Holocaust denier’s comments rejected!! It went on to say that the comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were UNACCEPTABLE and VIOLATE Church teaching. In a front-page article, the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano reafirmed that Pope Benedict XVI deplored all forms of anti-Semitism and that all Romam Catholics must do the same.

I’m a Catholic and also like to read your posts. I don’t believe the Pope and many intelligent people think the Holocaust didn’t happen. The facts are there. If the Pope has forgiven that bishop should not impact the relations between religions. What ever happened to the commandment Love your neighbor?

The pope is wrong, no question. His every action since his “selection” has shown marked movements backward to middle age philosophy and theology, and he doesn’t care that they are anti-semitic; in fact, I think he is doing it on purpose. It is obvious in his actions that he believes all other religions not only inferior to his own but invalid. Judaism, in particular, bothers him because he knows that the truth that can expose him as a liar resides with Jews.
He is a tyrant in a house of tyrants. Remember that the Vatican is old Rome with all its oppression, rules, and domination. How they can even claim Rabbi Yeshua as their Messiah boggles the mind. He was a jew. More than that…he was a jew for other jews. He would be horrified at what has been set up in his name – that the very ones who executed him now exhalt him – but not as who he actually was, but as some strange frankenstein’s monster of their own making–a “god-man” worshipped by men who think they speak for god who seek not truth and peace but power and domination. I, for one, never forget that they are the last vestige of the Roman Empire, spewing out their hatred and ignorance from their tiny city-state, seeking now to conquer “souls” as their ancestors conquered and tortured peaceful peoples of the earth, the majority of whom were Jews.

“Once upon a time there was a Church that sanctioned torture and murder. This Church believed it was its God?”
Israel marched from Egypt to Cannaan and killed plenty on its way in G-d’s holy name. Now Palistine? And the difference between what the Church has done and what Israel did and is doing in the name of G-d is what?
Anne wrote,
“I’m a Catholic and also like to read your posts. I don’t believe the Pope and many intelligent people think the Holocaust didn’t happen. The facts are there. If the Pope has forgiven that bishop should not impact the relations between religions. What ever happened to the commandment Love your neighbor?”
Amein, without redemption all is lost.Its easy to pick on the Catholics and forget our own sins.
Homo Mysticus

ALTHOUGH I ACCEPT MANY PRIESTS HELPED AT THE TIME OF THE HOLOCAUST TO SAVE LIVES, IT IS NOT THE STORY OF THE LEADERS OF THE VATICAN WHO DID NOTHING TO DENOUNCE NAZI ATTROCITIES AND HELPED THEM TO ESCAPE TO SAFETY AFTER THE WAR. THOSE OF YOU WHO THOUGHT THE VATICAN HAD CHANGED — OPEN YOUR EYES– BECAUSE HISTORY MAY REPEAT ITSELF – IF NOT A HOLOCAUST—THE INQUISITION.

Church continues to implode. First rampant sexual abuse and cover up– now returning to denying reality.. What is next? The inquisition?

Elisheva,
AMEIN!!

“Elisheva
January 27, 2009 12:43 PM
ALTHOUGH I ACCEPT MANY PRIESTS HELPED AT THE TIME OF THE HOLOCAUST TO SAVE LIVES, IT IS NOT THE STORY OF THE LEADERS OF THE VATICAN WHO DID NOTHING TO DENOUNCE NAZI ATTROCITIES AND HELPED THEM TO ESCAPE TO SAFETY AFTER THE WAR. THOSE OF YOU WHO THOUGHT THE VATICAN HAD CHANGED — OPEN YOUR EYES– BECAUSE HISTORY MAY REPEAT ITSELF – IF NOT A HOLOCAUST—THE INQUISITION.”
Until we wnet to war with Germany we sold them steel, rubber and armament. And we knew what was going on.Look at your own short comings. Whats wrong with the church is the same thing that is wrong with us.
Homo Mysticus

And we shouldn’t forget that this pope was a Hitler Youth. His actions and opinions reflect his own twisted past. If he was a truly holy and G-d inspired man, why wouldn’t he have resisted the evil of Hitler(like other Christians did), regardless of the consequences? Obviously, he has no problem “forgiving” this lying Bishop. He probably disagreed with the excommunication to begin with.

This entire thing is just another sad commentary on the way people see and treat each other. We all should pray for peace.

Thank G-d for some of you people. You no doubt will make the world a better place to live in…………..once you get rid of eveyone who disagrees with you or that you dislike. That way you will be surrounded by people just like you………….careful what you pray for.
The problem with the world is us! Fix yourselves that’s Toarh 101.
Homo Mysticus

as a non Catholic I have to constantly shake my head and wonder what the heck the Vatican thinks it is doing.
what they do is of no interest I finally concluded. I live in the US and the Catholics do not even seem to take them seriously as they do as they wish dispite anything Rome comes up with-so I do not care!

*headdesks repeatedly* Just further proof that the current Pope is determined to make all Catholics out to be dumb arses.
I liked John Paul II….he was a good man, and a good religious leader. Benedict XVI…not so much of either. He insists on alienating our sister faiths and deepening the rift between Christians, Muslims, and Jews.
Way to bring the Church back to the Dark Ages, man….way to go. Now all we need is for him to have some secret harlot stored in his closet, and we’d REALLY have a medieval Pope.
On behalf of every other Catholic I know (and myself), I’d just like to say that these small-minded men do not in any way represent the pillars of the Catholic faith. They talk the talk of Christ, but (apparently) cannot walk the walk. I am sorely disappointed in these “men of God”.

This lifting of the excommunication extended beyond the person at issue here and was imposed for reasons quite other than his views on the holocaust.

I have been told that there are resons for each of these decisions, besides antisemitism. But it sure does make the church (and Christianity in general) look very anti-semitic! I say this as a Christian. Even if there were valid reasons for this decisions, the RCC really bungled a lot of how they handled this.

“marta
January 27, 2009 6:47 PM
I have been told that there are resons for each of these decisions, besides antisemitism. But it sure does make the church (and Christianity in general) look very anti-semitic! I say this as a Christian. Even if there were valid reasons for this decisions, the RCC really bungled a lot of how they handled this.”
“Anti-Semitism” is a very serious issue. Please don’t trivialize it here. Most of these decisions are bad policy and or poorly thought out. Disagreeing with Israel does not make one an anti-Semite.
Homo Mysticus

the recent action by the pope simply reinforces the disgusting history and behavior of the catholic church for the past 2000 years…some things never change…
the church is waiting for jesus and the jews are waiting for decent behavior and tolerance from the church…keep waiting, if it hasn’t happened in 2000 years, chances are it never will….
the church is steeped in greed and hate…

A few decades ago, I was with one of the major Jewish defense agencies which was very active with interfaith dialogue. The agency goal was never that clear to me. I do not think it wanted to change anyone’s beliefs but rather to find common ground to solve mutual problems. Nonetheless, I think the interfaith people would be saddened by the Pope’s actions.
In a way, it is similar to the Gays’ reaction to Obama’s giving Rick Warren such a prominent role in the inauguration. When does inclusiveness cross the line into support for hatred and divisiveness? The Pope like Obama apparently feels the need to include these types of views in the Church.
I think the issue will become What do American Catholics think of this trend? Is the Church writing off American Catholics? It is clear the Pope does not care what Jews think or feel. Although we Jews may feel that it is an affront to us, I don’t think it has all that much to do with us as it does with the Conservatism of the Church worldwide.

Chief Rabbi Says Vatican Needs to Examine Its Conscience. Yes it is true, the Vatican needs to examine its conscience again for criticizing Israel. Israel is the beloved baby of the West. “senior Vatican official Cardinal Renato Martino of the Peace & Justice Commission sharply criticizing Israel’s actions and likening the Gaza Strip to a concentration camp,” Israel has the right to blockage Gaza for electing a government of their choice; a wrong choice for Israel offcourse. Israel has the right to kill 1300 and demolish mosques, schools, private dwellings to prevent the nuisance of Qassam rockets. When the public will awake to the false propaganda of the media? Israel claims to have withdrawn from Gaza but receives rockets as a reward from Palestinians. This is falsehood, painted in half truth. It is true that the Israel has withdrawn from Gaza but it has maintained a total blockade of Gaza; air, land and sea. What do you do in the face of that provocation? Do you die in silence or you send a rocket to remind the other side that you are there? “With the re-introduction of the Latin Mass last year calling for the conversion of Jews,” Why not? If you have the truth spread it. We all feel the same, I would like every one embrace the truth, which is Islam. “and now the Pope admitting a Holocaust denier into the hierarchy of the Catholic Church should concern Jews worldwide,” Why? What happened to the Jews is happening right now to the Palestians. How many Palestinians have been murdered, maimed, expelled from their homes, their land confiscated and more to come. Israel Needs to Examine Its Conscience, Hilal says.

I really don’t care what the Jews thinkt8rgaz

Did I wake up in the midst of a bad movie? Anyhow, now euro-crazy Catholics are joining “Islamo-fascists” in faith based insanity. We are all Judeo-Christians who supposedly love G-d and love our fellow man. Is this how we express our love by condoning the slaughter of innocents (Catholics and the Holocaust) or by randomly killing citizens of a nation that just wants to live in peace (Hamas and Israel)?
I know that the great majority of Catholics do not share Williamson’s sentiments, but this is the equivalent of the Pope throwing feces into the well we all share. It pollutes the water it for everyone Catholic and Jew alike.
I nominate Pope Benedict fot the Gearge W Bush interfaith harmony award.

There was an article in my newspaper yesterday in regards to this. It stated HOLOCAUSTS DENIERS’S COMMENTS REJECTED! The article came from Vatican City and says…the Vatican said Monday tht comments by a recently reabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were unacceptable and violate church teaching. In a front-page article, The Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano reafirmed that Pope Benedict XVI deplored all forms of anti-Sermitism and that all Roman Catholics must do the same.

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Holocaust deniers should be reprimaded vehemently, not given any reninstatement to any position linked with any organization that expects to be taken seriously. Christians and Jews are linked forever. In the fourth chapter of the gospel of John, Jesus declares, “Salvation is from the Jews.” Notice that he does not say, “Salvation is from a Jew.” To deny the Holocaust is anathema–to be condemned.