Windows and Doors

Windows and Doors

Orthodox Women Rabbis: Possibility or Prank?

posted by Brad Hirschfield | 9:46am Monday May 25, 2009

Can Women in the Orthodox community join their fellow- (no pun intended) females in the rabbinic ranks of the Conservative, Reconstructionist, Reform, Renewal, and post-denominational movements? This article about Orthodox women rabbis, announces the opening of a new program which seems to answer “yes”, “no” and “maybe” all at the same time.
Why should there not be women rabbis in the Orthodox community? Is this debate really about the conclusions which some have reached in answering that there should be? Or, is this really a referendum on the authority of those reaching the particular conclusion? What do you think?


Since no “final” answer will be reached any time soon, if ever, let’s begin the conversation right here. And let’s see if we can do it without the snarky sniping which animates the comments of many of those already jumping in to the fray. If we accomplish that much, we will move ahead spiritually, regardless of the conclusions for which any of us may advocate.



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Comments read comments(11)
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Sean Rhoades

posted May 25, 2009 at 12:54 pm


The day all women were given the right to vote in America, was the day America fell. We as a Nation are dead and don’t know it. Please realize that I don’t hate women, but I believe they have a place in creation, alongside men, as helpers, not leaders. There are times when it is appropriate for women to lead men, such as when God appointed Deborah as judge over Israel, to teach men to take responsibility for their position as leaders, and perhaps that’s what’s going on now. But what are the chances that women will relinquish their right to vote? Zero. No, the Scriptures teach that women are not to lead men, (Gen 3:16-17), and when God allows it to happen, get ready for trouble, humiliation, contention, arrogance, backstabbing, and misery.



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Robert

posted May 25, 2009 at 4:38 pm


Rabbi, I have to leave any serious discussion of this issue to those who are Orthodox. But you stimulate some fascinating questions. Would the rabbi not count toward making minyan? Who would cook Sabbath dinner? And, seriously, what effect would this have on relations with your Muslim friends?
And what are your personal views, dare I ask, sir?



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R

posted May 26, 2009 at 11:03 am


Rabbi–Although I am Jewish, I am not an orthodox Jew. Despite not being an orthodox Jew, sometimes I agree with/enjoy your writings. Other times I do not. This is one of the times I did not agree/enjoy. I read the article at the web link in your article. I did not find anything in the article that would lead me to think that anyone involved has been trying to play a prank. I believe that your use of the word prank was an unfortunate choice on your part. You may have sincere objections to orthodox women becoming rabbis. Perhaps in the rush to your publication deadline, you did not appreciate how bad and narrow minded the use of the word prank made you appear.



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Judy Berger

posted May 26, 2009 at 12:04 pm


I think that in time, Orthodox women could become a rabbi, although not in the same way the other denominations of Judaism allow them. Even when Orthodox women have a minyan for a women’s service, they are only allowed to do certain parts of the service.
Since I am not Orthodox, I am totally for women becoming rabbis. However, I think that this question should be put forth to the women of the movement to vote on. They are certainly just as educated as the women in the other movements.
Mr. Rhoades appears to be a sexist and I feel bad for him. Woman came from Adam’s rib to be by his side, not trailing behind him! (This, of course, does not include Lilith!-That’s another story!)
Also, as for who would cook the Shabbos dinner? Both husband and wife, of course!



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Al Eastman

posted May 26, 2009 at 4:50 pm


This septuagenarian has a difficult time with women serving as rabbis and cantors. It’s not that I dislike women, far from it. It is just not what I expect to hear in a Shabbos or Yom Tov service. I guess I am a product of my generation and my upbringing.



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Lucy

posted May 26, 2009 at 6:09 pm


First, to Mr. Rhoades, considering the mess the world has been in under male domination, I certainly believe it is time women have an opportunity to have some input. I am not saying they will do better but they certainly can do no worse! You think women voters got us into trouble? Mostly, all they had to vote for were MEN!!! Okay, enough juvenile silliness; I think most mature adults can agree that men and women are equally capable of greatness…and of foolishness. As to women rabbis, I am not orthodox but my husband and I were married by an Orthodox rabbi and he was long a member of an Orthodox community. To be honest, The Orthodox view of women’s roles was quite disconcerting for me. I think what really bothered me most is that at our wedding and the week afterward when were given celebratory dinners, a thirteen-year-old boy could give one of the blessings over our marriage but a sucessful professional woman with a strong knowlege of Torah could not! I really resented that and must admit, was glad when all the wedding stuff ended. I seriously believe that any community is better when men and women are full and equal participants. There are women who would make terrific rabbis. They could offer help to women congregants that men could not and could perhaps help men see things from a different perspective. Just as all elementary school teachers should not be female, all clergy should not be male! I know that this is not a halacic argument. I know that many in the Orthodox community believe that men and women have roles that are divinely given and to go against those roles is wrong. This, of course, is their right. Those of us who do not like it can go to conservative or reform synagogues. I do not understand how Orthodox women accept the status quo and I suppose many of them would not understand me. I wish men and women could work with each other and treat each other with respect in all aspects of life. In places where the most paternalistic, ultra-orthodox forms of religion predominate, women are usually treated badly. There is no such thing as “seperate but equal;” seperate is never equal.



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societyvs

posted May 26, 2009 at 6:19 pm


I really liked Lucy’s comments about the equality of men and women within the rabbinic discussion – I like the idea of women becoming rabbi’s (on a personal level)…just like I believe woman and men should both run any church – for reasons of balance.
Reason I say ‘balance’ is that men cannot truly speak to all of women’s needs and to the way they think – there are differences. In all honesty, I think women can speak to women needs in a more empathatic fashion as compared to men (we being ignorant of what it is like to be a woman).
But until we start seeing more involvement from women in leadership in faith systems – we will have systems that are archaic in some fashion and do not address the full needs of the congregation.



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Your Name

posted May 27, 2009 at 10:19 am


Orthodoxy is facing the following options:
* Stay the same, and lose the woman crowd or any other person who didn’t crowl from under a stone in Kabul. Yet isn’t if fun to pretend the numbers work to the advantage of Orthodoxy? Its not like Orthodox Jews are a minority or something.
* Adapt and upset the crowd fearfull that woman might have an opinion god forbid.
Yet the real issue is that the rest of the world should not wait for Orthodoxy to be kind enough to make up its mind. First of all the state of Israel should stop giving them a monopoly on conversion. Second, politicians must realize they don’t represent the majority of Jews in the US. Take away these two power sources and Orthodoxy is back to its real size and that will keep egos in check as well.



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Papper

posted June 1, 2009 at 5:30 pm


Orthodoxy does not make up its mind with respect to matters of Jewish law. It follows the rules. The greatest legal experts on Jewish law have already rules that women cannot serve as Rabbis. Those who don’t like that, can find another religion that serves their wants, like Conservative and Reform.
You see, believing in something means not picking and choosing the things you like and things you dislike. It means to obey and subjugate your will to a higher authority.



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Your Name

posted September 14, 2009 at 10:58 pm


I am female and I totally disagree with female rabbis. Let the women lead other women and children. It is horrible that that Jewish women are beginning to act like liberal Christains. I don’t even understand it.



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gratis cat

posted October 8, 2009 at 1:11 am


How two guys got a totally fake lawsuit broadcast on Court TV, during sweeps week. The Court TV Prank v5



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