Windows and Doors

Windows and Doors

What is Real Torah, and Who Decides?

posted by Brad Hirschfield | 9:58am Wednesday May 20, 2009

An ongoing conversation with a deeply reflective and thoughtful, though not traditionally observant, Israeli friend yielded the following e-mail about Jewish laws of sexual modesty in general and Kol Isha, women’s voices in particular.
Whatever one thinks about these rules, my friend’s questions are really about the nature of what “really important” according to the Torah, what’s not, and who gets to decide. Those are essential questions with which all people that care about a tradition wrestle. I hope that his comments and my response are useful in your own thinking about what really matters in your own spiritual journey.

“Don’t recall the live broadcast of Moses coming down from the mountain with god’s voice exclaiming Kol Isha is forbidden but hey that’s me. I love your ability Brad to hide behind the text old baboons wrote ages ago providing you with a check blanko excuse for moral high ground no matter the circumstances.
What we have here a third or fifth derivatives at best, of a rule which belongs in Kabul. The Neanderthals feel under attack by the society they live in, so in a cowardly way, they took it on teenagers, I’m impressed.
Secular Jews know damn well that after we get the song and dance from the Orthodox about brotherhood, no compromise is ever made, and I challenge you for a concrete meaningful example showing about the Orthodoxy making a real compromises.
I’m not afraid of these halakhot (laws) since I live in a society which already abides by them in my very home. Fact is the Rabbinic dogma is found right here amongst us when we peel away the thin facade of intellectualism and liberalism.”

G, as always, the questions are smart and good, if a little harsh, and I want to respond to each of your four paragraphs.


1. What do you recall Moses coming down and saying? Was there a Moses? If he did exist, did he really talk with God? If he did so, is our Torah an accurate record of that conversation? and if it is, is that Torah limited to the Humash (Five Books of Moses)? Does it include the Talmud? Everything any rabbi teaches? This conversation?
I think Giora that you confuse what’s “really Torah” with those rules you can live with. And again, that makes you exactly the same as the typical Haredi Jew, and many other kinds as well, all of whome confuse Judaism with their own way of being Jewish. I simply prefer to admit that Torah manifests itself in many forms and that good people can disagree about what is and is not Torah, what is and is not essential.
2. I share your frustration about some of the inconsistencies in the RJC community, but are we without our own? It doesn’t excuse them one bit, but focusing on theirs does not excuse ours either.
3. You are 100% right about the abuse of clal yisrael (whole Jewish people)- and ahdut- (togetherness) based arguments which come out of the Orthodox world. They are typically nothing more than an excuse for granting Ortho’s hegemony in the name of unity. It is shameful. But it is not the whole story.
In fact, if it were, there would be no Haredi (ultr-Orthodox)movement, which is itself a response to the myriad ways in which Orthodox Jews, beginning in the 19th century, combined participation in the larger world while remaining orthodox both in their own minds and in the minds of others. They effectively re-defined, or at least made viable a new definition of, orthodoxy. That’s what freaked out the Haredim (plural of Haredi) and gave birth to their entirely modern and reactionary movement.
4. The fear to which I alluded is the one to which you alluded in your earlier message i.e. that our kids will run away from Judaism if we are “too strict”. That argument is simply the flip-side of the position that both you and I abhor — that unless we are that strict, our kids will fall away from Judaism altogether.



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Comments read comments(4)
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posted May 20, 2009 at 1:30 pm


First comment is that any attempt to define some Jews as “not Jewish enough” is inherently destructive to the Jewish community as a whole. Given that the Bible is open to many interpretations, it should not be surprising that some Jews choose to live their lives differently than other Jews. All Jews are Jews–period. The rest should be left up to the Almighty to judge.
Second, there is certainly wisdom in the Bible. There are also many important commandments to follow. But there are also problems with many Biblical passages and practices. For instance, if I unwittingly fail to follow a commandment, should I be obligated to sacrifice and burn a bull at the altar of my synagogue? If I had a daughter, would it be all right for me to sell her into slavery (or indentured servitude)as long as I follow certain rules? The Bible basically says that women are unclean for certain periods after they have a baby (and unclean longer after the birth of a boy than a girl). Would we, today, view a new mother as unclean? And, I don’t think that I will be tithing (spelling?) cattle any time soon.
Even reputable Orthodox Jewish thinkers such as yourself have to admit that they do not & cannot follow every one of the 613 mitzvahs. The question is–how to lead a reasonably faithful life, be faithful to God, and lead a life in this century?



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Karen

posted May 20, 2009 at 10:09 pm


“For instance, if I unwittingly fail to follow a commandment, should I be obligated to sacrifice and burn a bull at the altar of my synagogue?”
If you claim a right to land in the Middle East on the basis of G-d’s recorded promises, yes.
“If I had a daughter, would it be all right for me to sell her into slavery (or indentured servitude)as long as I follow certain rules? The Bible basically says that women are unclean for certain periods after they have a baby (and unclean longer after the birth of a boy than a girl). Would we, today, view a new mother as unclean?”
Yes. Be consistent.
“And, I don’t think that I will be tithing (spelling?) cattle any time soon.”
Well, some kind of Jew you are.



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Al Eastman

posted May 21, 2009 at 1:35 pm


Moderator,
I find Your Name’s above post patently offensive to me as a Jew. While he/she/it is free to give his/her/its opinions, to post the above is at best a flagrant disregard for the niceties of diversity and at worst downright insulting to Jews.
PLEASE REMOVE IT!
Al



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RB

posted May 23, 2009 at 1:02 pm


Al, WHAT’S YOUR PROBLEM? The “niceties of diversity and at worst downright insulting to Jews.”? I guess I wouldn’t be a good enough Jew for YOU. Having a closed mind such as your’s apparently, and sadly, is, is totally against the way the intelligent Jewish mind thinks. We are supposed to be challenged. We are supposed to look at all sides of an issue, including Torah, including halacha, including Talmud. If you know anything about Talmud, you know the sage Rabbis have varying opinions on every aspect of Torah and both majority and minority opinions are INCLUDED! You find “YOUR NAME”s post offensive. I find your post offensive in that you make Jews look small-minded and help promote stereotypes. WAKE UP! To the Moderator: PLEASE **KEEP** “YOUR NAME”s post. It is IMPORTANT for all opinions to have a voice. And keep Al’s post too even though it is completely offensive to me. He has a right to express his opinion.



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