In my book “Numen, Old Men: Contemporary Masculine Spiritualities and the Problem of Patriarchy” I warn about the dangerous consequences of appealing to archetypes such as the warrior in spiritual journeys: “For a man to access the Wild Man he must retreat into his psychic depths, into the forest, into a pre-Christian pagan space of hirsute manliness. Bly intends the Wild Man, with his relationship with the young boy of the Iron John story, to be an example of how men can be initiated into adulthood and the deep masculine. This would be a worthy exercise if it enabled boys to flourish for both their own sakes and the good of the community, but instead Iron John ‘celebrate[s] violence and killing as the means to establish male identity’. This is the archetypal path established by Bly. … This disturbing precedent is continued with Moore and Gillette encouraging men to access the warrior in the male psyche, whose natural presence is indicated by the fact that chimpanzees resort to battle, and men’s fascination with war movies such as Apocalypse Now, Platoon, and Full Metal Jacket. Moore and Gillette would have their readers believe it is natural for mythopoetically inclined men to imagine themselves operating within the presumably dark and oppressive jungle … these appeals to archetypal models promote largely oppressive and violent masculinities.”
A sad outcome for everyone.

I know the “warrior” archetype is appealing, and I’ve known Pagan leaders whom I respect to lead “access your inner warrior” workshops wherein the fist thing they generally do is to try and “redefine” the term “warrior.” I’m generally of the “let a thousand flowers bloom” school of spirituality, but I always have to pause and wonder why we should be giving more energy to this archetype rather than less, especially in today’s world. Just my two sheckles.

That was some expensive sweat!

Love the joke, “about two decimal places.” Just to be clear, I believe the entire seminar was 5 days. The sweat was a ceremony at the end. It is amazing how much money these people command simply due to the fact that they were in the movie “The Secret.” Can’t really judge the real value of the 5 day seminar, since I wasn’t there. But I can say for certain, I wouldn’t want to be in James Rey’s shoes. Sounds like he has enough money to hire some good lawyers, though.

I mourn for these lost lives.
To Joseph,
I attended work shops where Bly, Gilette and Moore propounded their views on the subject your mention.
I will only say I came away with a much more positive understanding of their work than you have shared.
Why even bring them up in this context? Were they involved in this?
–GS

I suspect that the model of instruction is askew here. But enthusiastically American in its celebration of More! Quick! Pay!
What comes to mind as I read the descriptions of Ray’s events and what they promise is an occultural/human potential/prosperity consciousness traveling meeting counterpart to the growth of megachurches. Megachurches alter the relationship of adherent to congregation and clergy–and perhaps to deity–in lots of telling ways.
CNN provides an aerial photo of the “sweatbox.” It’s big. A mega-sweat facility that holds more bodies and, it appears, can get too hot. And produce tragic incidents. [Blessings to those who were injured and those who have crossed over.]
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/09/sweat.box.deaths/index.html
The entire enterprise, no matter how occult its trappings, seems so fa removed from anything that I or my co-practitioners do that it’s difficult for me to acknowledge what links us in history and in vision. But I cannot see how organization and marketing and haste can take a seeker very far compared to the low, slow, and gradual practice that I follow and advocate.

People seem too willing to access ceremonies they haven’t been prepared or accepted for, redefining archetypes that already have a wide range of interpretations, and energies that they may not be able to handle. Couple this with people who are trying to put as many bodies into an enclosed hot space back up by CYA paperwork to help prevent lawsuits, and you are asking for the organization not to take responsibility. Neopagans can have their own spiritual traditions, retreats, intense ceremonies and life changing rituals without nipping them from First Nations.

Any time you take a sacred ceremony and try to make money out of it , it becomes defiled.
Sacred ceremonies such as the sweat lodge are not for the unintitated or uninvited by an elder.
What happened to those ignorant people is a warning by a higer power to not play with or try to make money off of things you dont understand.

Thank you for your reporting on this sad event.
According to a report from the NY Times, there may have been negligence due to covering the sweat lodge with plastic, thus not allowing enough oxygen in:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/us/11lodge.html

Greg, of course Bly et al are involved: they popularized the seeking of spiritual archetypes and a muscular form of spirituality and personal development, the pursuit of which is the reason these poor people died.

It is very unfortunate for this incident to happen.
I agree with the blogger, in that the quest to make money, combined with someone who never should have conducted ANY kind of traditional ceremony, let alone a dangerous one such as a sweat lodge, caused this incident.
Disrespect of a sacred tradition does not bring good to anyone involved.
May we in the Pagan world always remember this, and keep our traditions responsible, respected, and safe, for those who walk with us for learning.

Good one on Personal Development and it helps a lot.
Thanks,
Karim – Positive thinking

Forgive me for sounding ignorant here. However, it is my understanding that a native shamanic healer does not charge for healing. That violates the basic ethics involved. It is akin to asking someone for prayer and then having to pay for it. It changes the motive and intent. With this in mind this event should not have happened to begin with.

As I understand it, tribes differ with regard to how payment is made – some shamans and medicine people charge for shamanic work and some accept gifts- but those cultures accepting gifts do not automatically discount the value of gift relationships, as our society does. So there may be traditional peoples where sweats are paid for in a formal sense. In others, gifts are given, but the gifts are expected to be in some sense appropriate, at least on balance.
With that preamble – I have been to many sweats, and I can remember none where there was a formal charge. Such exorbitant charges as this guys was charging – not to cover the sweat leaders expenses and give him some support, but to make him a bundle, were unheard of.
On the other hand, because an incompetent sweat is really nothing more than a sauna, if nothing goes wrong, made it possible for some folks to set themselves up as sweat leaders, and charge. I heard rumors.
This joker was a bit different and a lot worse – he charged almost $10,000 for five days, which ended in this catastrophe. One evidence the guy was a total incompetent is that the sweat leader is supposed to monitor everything going on in the lodge. I know of no leaders who would want 60+ people to monitor, even if somehow they could all be fitted within a real lodge. BTW, genuine sweat lodges are constructed ritually and according to a step by sacred step approach to the matter.

everything is done with prayer and good intention etc.

Well spoke, blogger, my sentiments exactly.

It’s the American Way!
Foolish PPL looking for a quick, trendy fix to their ongoing spiritual lack of awareness…And a charlatan who will help them do it-just another snake oil salesman. I honor and respect the dead involved, but a seriously lack of judgement was apparent when that many ppl were crammed into a plasti tent! One look and I would have left and gone back to Ohio!

It’s the American Way!
Foolish PPL looking for a quick, trendy fix to their ongoing spiritual lack of awareness…And a charlatan who will help them do it-just another snake oil salesman. I honor and respect the dead involved, but a seriously lack of judgement was apparent when that many ppl were crammed into a plasti tent! One look and I would have left and gone back to Ohio!

Our prayers go out to those who died and their families in the hands of the Guru. I love to attend sweat lodges and I pray that people continue to attend their safe lodges.
http://www.soberliving.com/blog/2009/08/11/sweating-in-sobriety-by-jay-rau