Of course, this is not new territory for Pastor Piper. He made similar claims to know the Divine Mind after the Minneapolis bridge collapse, the Asian tsunami, and other times. And, as might be expected, Piper has been gently questioned by Scot, excoriated by Adam, Drew, and others, and brilliantly satirized by Jenell.
All of this is to be expected. Piper's twisted logic that interprets some natural phenomenon as authored by God to scare sinners while completely ignoring others shocks us, I think, because he otherwise seems like a pretty reasonable fellow. For words like that to come from bombasts like Falwell and Robertson is to be expected, but Piper somehow seems above that.
But he keeps doing it, so we should no longer be surprised. It's part of his schtick.
My question is this: Where is Christianity Today? Where is Tim Keller? Where are the presidents of Dallas Seminary or Wheaton College? Where is J.I. Packer, Collin Hansen, or Darrell Bock?
These people and institutions will gladly editorialize against liberals and emergents, happily write editorials against open theists or pro-choice Christians. But will they call out John Piper?
Christianity Today mentioned Piper's post in an online news piece about the the ELCA convention. And I can guess, knowing some of them, that they find Piper's interpretation of the whirlwind something between laughable and odious. But will they, or anyone in the Evangelical intelligentsia, finally say that John Piper is outside of mainstream evangelicalism?
I doubt it.
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But he keeps doing it, so we should no longer be surprised. It's part of his schtick.
My question is this: Where is Christianity Today? Where is Tim Keller? Where are the presidents of Dallas Seminary or Wheaton College? Where is J.I. Packer, Collin Hansen, or Darrell Bock?
These people and institutions will gladly editorialize against liberals and emergents, happily write editorials against open theists or pro-choice Christians. But will they call out John Piper?
Christianity Today mentioned Piper's post in an online news piece about the the ELCA convention. And I can guess, knowing some of them, that they find Piper's interpretation of the whirlwind something between laughable and odious. But will they, or anyone in the Evangelical intelligentsia, finally say that John Piper is outside of mainstream evangelicalism?
I doubt it.
(Want to hear another side of Christianity? Register today for Christianity21!)
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I find it interesting that the comments defending this article use opinion and emotion to do so rather than Scripture. I myself find it to be idolatrous ranting (idolatrous because the godess of Jones and her views are found nowhere in the Bible). Isn't there anybody out there that can provide a Biblical reference and argument in defense of this article? If not, why do Jones and his followers continue to call themselves "christian" when their views are not drawn from Scripture?
I would beg of Jones and his followers to please stop using the name of Christ when you have no intention of reading or obeying His Word. Or....prove me wrong and give a Biblical defense of this article.
I am an ELCA Lutheran, a "convert" of sorts. I did not grow up in the Church and was, in fact, pretty anti-religion and was turned off by my conservative evangelical friends in college. But they made a big mistake. They gave me a Bible for a birthday present and I began reading it. I have found in the Gospel a different Jesus than they had told me about. The Jesus I have found speaks of a loving, compassionate God; of self-sacrifice (taking up ones cross); of forgiveness; of putting God before human precepts; of the potential dangers of worshiping idols including money and one’s own intelligence; of loving God and one’s neighbor. The Jesus I have found shared meals with the outcasts and the unclean of many stripes. The Jesus I read about spoke of marriage once, saying that is was unlawful to divorce and remarry (and, yes, he said it was between one man and one woman).
The Jesus I have found also said some disturbing stuff about judgment in the last days. For instance, he said that if we don’t feed the hungry, clothe the naked and visit those in jail we will be the goats who don’t fare so well in the end. He has called us to give our extra coats to the poor, to sell all we have and give it to the poor. And I passed by a guy holding up a sign asking for help outside the Safeway parking lot the other day without offering food or money, have never visited the county jail to minister to the imprisoned and own at least four coats.
A Lutheran confession states that we “are in bondage to sin and cannot free ourselves.” We are all broken and there is nothing we can do to make ourselves whole. I’m not sure we are even able to articulate what “wholeness” is in God’s eyes. My church has been a “Reconciling in Christ” congregation, welcoming to all regardless of sexual orientation, for over 20 years. And I would not have a problem if our church called a homosexual clergy person some day. I have read the Old Testament passages regarding homosexuality, and I agree that St. Paul was not a fan of homosexuality. I can make a good argument about how Paul was not arguing about two gay men in a committed relationship, that his understanding of homosexuality was much different. But I do not pretend to know God’s mind or heart (or St. Paul’s for that matter). I only know that I am freed by God’s Grace to follow Christ in love, humility and service. Why do other followers of Christ feel the need to question my faith and my salvation when they are just as broken as I? In the end, when Christ comes to separate the sheep and goats, all I can do is to ask for forgiveness for all my sins, known and unknown and pray, "Lord, in your mercy…"
Can I get anyone's opinion of "God to Same-Sexers: Hurry Up"? Ran into it on some engine like Google or Yahoo. Roger
I'm consistently surprised by how unfair the treatment of Piper is on this matter. Anytime someone actually applies the biblical connection between disaster and judgement, people cry heresy. Piper has never claimed to know the divine mind. What he has done is unequivocally stated that ALL disaster is an attempt from God to bring people back to him. So this tornado falls under the heading of "All disaster."
This is not a unique claim and it's one that I'm fairly sure Packer, Keller and others in the Reformed community--those who assume absolute sovereignty and biblical inerrancy--would agree with. To compare Piper's statement with Robertson, who has claimed to make prophecys predicting future events which did not come true is a gross exaggeration and a disappointing lack of forethought.
The Jesus of the New Testament does indeed preach about love in the sense referred to MikeC, but he also talks about the Judgment of a righteous God upon things that he hates. Jesus died for sinners, that is clear, not just to die for them, but so that they WILL trust him and put aside all sin and follow him.
With this point of reference in mind, the conservative church or whatever you might want to call it has a strong biblical standing upon homosexuality. In response to homosexuality, it is clear from the Bible that if the word of God is true, which I believe it is, we can observe it in the every day world as well. Human physiology clearly shows that Males are Made for Females in the way that the Penis enters the Vagina perfectly, so when two become one, life can possibly result as an action. In the same way, we become one with Jesus through the cross NOT on our own terms, but on the terms provided by God through Christ. This is perhaps why Gay people in such relationships have such a higher chance and likelihood of dying from STD's. God wants people to turn away from their sin. So the ordination of a gay priest/bishop/pastor, wants the love part, but refuses to accept that to follow Christ is to leave all sin behind. The Genesis account of man and woman is the clearest example from Scripture of what is God's standard for relationships, and this can be backed up by verifiable evidence. It is made too big of a deal because it is a "hot issue," in politics, to God, all sin is a BIG issue, so under the qualifications of a pastor/deacon found in 1 Timothy, "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;" and 11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. How does a church that allows the ordination of homosexuals get past this verse? But only by conforming to the standard of our country and world. God has a much higher standard, how about we let the standard of his word conform us, rather than try to let the world conform us.
As for the Tornados, I am not God, I do know he talks about in his word about incoming disasters, but I've also seen "Good" Christians who love Jesus get cancer randomly out of the blue. The ones that love the Lord go to the grave loving Jesus or they gain strength from him, but they truly seek him out through the whole ordeal. So trying to explain a tornado and dissect God's motivations for causing it to happen is by large here say. Piper is right when he says it is quite possible that God meant it as a call to repentance. Look at the storms and disaster in the Old Testament, they aren't random acts with no purpose, God is always behind it and it is always an act to bring people back to repentance for their unfaithfulness. Whether or not the tornado "changed" directions is to call condemnation, it might be, but it also might be for other reasons. Again it is a "Hot topic." people like to make things out of hot topics because it is something to talk about.
The point is, our GOd is ABSOLUTELY A LOVING GOD, but he is absolutely also a righteous God that sees beyond what we see, we see the Hot topic of the day, GOd sees people turning back to him and maybe a warning to come with it. People will go there own way even in churches, they will choose their values and pick and choose what parts of the Bible they like and ignore the rest, is this biblical Christianity? This is called American Christianity largely, turn back to the Bible, not interpretations from a 21st century American - do whatever is right to you point of view as you can find in the book of Judges, but the long-lasting history of the true church that has been faithful to God. It can't be because Jesus did not come out of nowhere, he came from the prophecies of the Old Testament, and he used his Apostles to establish his church on the basis of the Old Testament being the Word of God. Also, some extra tidbit.
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